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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Scene of the Crimes

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  #341  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:56 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I`m sorry, Christer. I disagree.
Seaman is a proven homicidal lunatic who lived at the centre of the murders.
Proven homicidal lunatics win everytime
I seriously doubt the ripper was a homicidal maniac ; )
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  #342  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:09 AM
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If someone is going to lie about their name, why don't they lie about their name?

He gave his first name as Charles.

He even brought himself forward after Robert Paul mentioned him to the press.

Then Lechmere apparently had a good reason why he called himself Charles Cross. It was his stepfather's surname.

Even Kozminski called himself Abrahams.
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  #343  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:39 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
Sam Flynn: The "proven" reason(s) to be present - e.g. visiting mum, being 0.6 miles away from a former place of work - are speculative, and even the "work-trek" argument collapses in respect of Chapman if she really was killed at sun-up.

[color="DarkRed"]Proven reasons to have been present at a site must always be "speculative". They are not proof that a person was in place, but instead that he had a logical reason to be. The concept is a simple one to understand once you put your mind to it.

Therefore the original term "proven reasons" used is incorrect is it not?


Steve
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  #344  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:44 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Just as an aside, this thread was about my upcoming work on BUCKS ROW.
I see little here relating to my work, it was certainly not a Lechmere thread.

I resent it being shall we say highjacked.



Steve
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  #345  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:04 PM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I didn't recall you asking for a name. But, now that you mention it, here's a list of all the men, aged between 30 and 55, admitted to Whitechapel Infirmary with some kind of mental illness ("lunacy", "mania" etc) through 1888 to January 1889:

Frederick Wallis
George Martin
John Clark
John Lawrence
Nathaniel Farrant
Solomon de Groot
Joseph Vann
Richard Price
Joseph Milnes
Theophilus Beechey
Michael Malone
Josiah Hines
Lorenzo Canavesio
Charles Jennings
Ephraim Weston
David Balcombe
John Milnes
David Phillips
Robert Bull
George Rohrig
James Dooley
Edwin Brand
Samuel Taylor
Morris Kemp
Thomas Parsons
Thomas Donoghue
Daniel Stock
William Baleham
Joseph Marcus
Powell Tewson
William Adam Cullen
Robert Henry Miller
Alfred Everard
Frederick J Davis
Herbert Dickens
Alfred Spriggs
Thomas John Newton
Henry Alexander

That's 38 in total... and, of course, those are just the "lunatics" who were "caught", so to speak; God knows how many others there were out there undiagnosed. Besides, as we know, we may not be looking for a "lunatic" at all, and the Ripper might have been a little younger than 30. But it's a start.
And for whom of these non-starters does it apply that they were either found at one or all of the murder sites or that they had reason to visit all the sites? Reason not meaning that they lived in Whitechapel but instead that they had some sort of tie to the specific murder spot that went beyond simply living there.

Aaaaand THERE goes you argument! Poof!!! There was no substance in it at all, the only connection there ever was between the murder site and these men is that they were at some time admitted to a Whitechapel infirmary. How totally predictable - and pathetic de luxe.

You know, after having demolished your so called point like this, it will feel a lot easier to leave the thread so that Steve does not have to suffer any further resentement. Not that he hasn´t joined the discussion himself, but anyway. I aim to please.
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  #346  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:10 PM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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My Last post here was nearly 200 posts ago.
Unfortunatley there is always a tendency for those on a mission to take over threads, this has gone to look at Eddowes and Mitre Square. Not related in any serious way to the title of the thread


Steve
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  #347  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:51 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
And for whom of these non-starters
How do we know they're non-starters? The Ripper could be right there among them, staring us in the face; I doubt it, statistically, but you never know.
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does it apply that they were either found at one or all of the murder sites
Cross wasn't "found" at a murder site either, never mind all of them.
Quote:
or that they had reason to visit all the sites?
These people lived in the middle of Whitechapel, for God's sake!!! They don't need any of us to make up reasons for their being there, because they were there already - and not just them, either, but thousands upon thousands of other local males who weren't maniacs/lunatics.

(Sorry, Steve.)
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  #348  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:34 PM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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Just as an aside, this thread was about my upcoming work on BUCKS ROW.
I see little here relating to my work, it was certainly not a Lechmere thread.

I resent it being shall we say highjacked.

This and a number of other threads.
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  #349  
Old 11-14-2018, 08:12 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John G View Post
But he was only observed at one murder site, and he had a perfectly legitimate reason for being there. Why would a serial killer be concerned with making sure they had an explanation for being present at all of the murder sites? In fact, I would have thought that anyone who happened to be observed at several of the murder sites would be automatically a prime suspect, regardless of what explanation they might give for being in the general area.
Precisely the point I have tried to make on numerous occasions, John, only for Fish to ridicule it.

Maybe I really ought to take up knitting or baking instead, as Fish advised, because I thought serial killers generally try to avoid anything which could connect them with one or more of their victims, either at the time of the crime or as a result of police investigations. They'd surely prefer to avoid being recognised and identified, either in the company of a victim, or near to the scene of crime. I'm not sure I've ever heard of one actually setting out to offend only in locations where they could be expected to be around the time of the offence, but maybe Fish has half a dozen examples up his sleeve? Presumably all caught - and fairly easily - because they had connections with each of their crime scenes which led to their identification.

Love,

Caz
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  #350  
Old 11-14-2018, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
There is no evidence whatsoever that Cross was at 29 Hanbury Street, Berner Street, Mitre Square or Miller's Court, and it would be much easier for Joe Bloggs to have been at those sites at any time of the morning than it ever would be for Cross.
And the beauty of it from Joe Bloggs's point of view is that he wouldn't have already volunteered his identity as the first man to be seen with the woman butchered in Buck's Row while on his usual route to work! So he'd have been in a far better position to murder again the following weekend in Hanbury St, then again in all those other places, without the risk of anyone saying: "Hang on, this same Joe Bloggs can also be connected in time and place with the Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly murders" - whether Joe Bloggs could be thus connected or not. And Bloggs would have been infinitely better off in practice if he could not.

Love,

Caz
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Last edited by caz : 11-14-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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