Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
General Discussion: Ripper was several people... - by c.d. 8 minutes ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - by jerryd 4 hours ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - by Batman 5 hours ago.
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - by harry 5 hours ago.
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - by Batman 7 hours ago.
Scene of the Crimes: The Nihilist Club ie. Berner Street - by MrBarnett 7 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - (40 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - (6 posts)
General Discussion: Ripper was several people... - (4 posts)
Scene of the Crimes: The Nihilist Club ie. Berner Street - (1 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #81  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:09 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
There's nothing to continue, Batman. What I just said was based on facts, and I can't change those. Levisohn, the sole source for the erroneous belief that Klosowski was in the White Hart in 1888, was demonstrably out in his dates, and that's that.

You yourself said out that Klosowski was an hour's walk away from the site of Tabram's murder on that fateful Bank Holiday, and - as I then pointed out - that party was held by Abraham and Ethel Radin, because Klosowski was feeling homesick having not long ago left Poland. As we know, Klosowski lived and worked with the Radins sometime in 1888, in West India Dock Road... which, spookily enough, is almost exactly an hour's walk from George Yard.

Everything points to Klosowski first living in West India Dock Road, before moving to Cable Street in 1888. He was still living there when he got married to Lucy on 19th October 1889, some time after which the couple took up temporary residence in Commercial Street for an unspecified period (perhaps early-mid 1890) until they finally set up shop at the White Hart some time before September 1890, when their son was born.
Sam, you have requested on several threads when there is a huge shift of topic to take to those threads instead in which we mostly obliged you. Can you please take it there so we can address all these matters, especially in with people who seem very knowledgable on the matter in that thread. There are a number of issues with what you are saying, especially in respect on that thread.

So again, please, could you take it there and repeat what you have to say, as this is the sort of thing you have asked us to do a few times in the past weeks and which we have obliged you.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:21 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 11,169
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Sam, you have requested on several threads when there is a huge shift of topic to take to those threads instead in which we mostly obliged you. Can you please take it there so we can address all these matters, especially in with people who seem very knowledgable on the matter in that thread. There are a number of issues with what you are saying, especially in respect on that thread.
My research into the Court records happened after the conversations on that thread, and the "very knowledgeable people" in question did not have access to that information. Besides, some of them were convinced that Klosowski was the Ripper, and that should be borne in mind when reading what they said.

I'm sure that the trajectory I outlined in my previous post (WI Dock Rd -> Cable St -> Commercial St -> White Hart) is correct and that, unlike the unreliable Wolff Levisohn, my dates are not too wide of the mark - in fact, most of them can be objectively verified. It all makes perfect sense when you think about it, but I certainly don't want to waste time arguing that point with you or anyone else.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:23 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
My research into the Court records happened after the conversations on that thread, and the "very knowledgeable people" in question did not have access to that information. Besides, some of them were convinced that Klosowski was the Ripper, and that should be borne in mind when reading what they said.

I'm sure that the trajectory I outlined in my previous post (WI Dock Rd -> Cable St -> Commercial St -> White Hart) is correct and that, unlike the unreliable Wolff Levisohn, my dates are not too wide of the mark - in fact, most of them can be objectively verified. It all makes perfect sense when you think about it, but I certainly don't want to waste time arguing that point with you or anyone else.
You are arguing this out so since you won't obligue (I'll remember that one in future) I can take it to that thread instead of you.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:15 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
The apron piece in connection with the geographic profile tells us that when Eddowes was murdered the offender was not heading out of Whitechapel but into it. The line drawn from Mitre Square through the Apron piece carries on forward and hits the hot zone, not just in parallel with it, but right beside it.

https://i.imgur.com/sTAMmAc.jpg

I am sure plenty of people with alternative suspects have to do a lot of weaving and turning to try and avoid the conclusion that the apron and the geographic profile tell us. That JtR had a base near Flower & Dean St. and Lolesworth Street. So even a commuter model has to have the suspect staying there. It is not like he is taking a train or cab out of the area at that time in the morning... especially in that area. One of the hardest areas in London at the time.
Your theory is flawed if the killer did not deposit the apronpiece

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:29 AM
Observer Observer is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,649
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
sure-in a city that dense. now I don't think whoever dropped it lived in the wentworth building or even on that street. THAT would be too close.
What's population density got to do with it? I've just measured it, and it's 168 yards. A lot of the buildings east of the corner of Goulston Street, and Wentworth Street, down to the junction of Commercial Street, where the Victoria Home lay, were shops anyway, as they are today. The thing is, and I meant to mention this, you believe that Eddowes killer dropped the apron purposely in order to indicate that he had written the GSG. Would the killer, if he lived a mere 168 yards away, take this risk? I don't believe he would.

Last edited by Observer : 10-20-2018 at 06:44 AM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:35 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Your theory is flawed if the killer did not deposit the apronpiece

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
It isn't my theory. It is the theory of the Whitechapel murder investigation concerning Eddowes.

It is that how you explain this away for your suspect Carl Feigenbaum? That he didn't deposit the apron piece there?
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:35 AM
Observer Observer is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,649
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisherman View Post
A question I asked myself a number of times! Then again, I do not belong to the ones who regard the Victoria Home as Hutchinsons regular joint...
He was living there on the 10 November, so there is at least a possibility that he was living there during the terrors, as opposed to living elsewhere.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 10-20-2018, 07:14 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
It isn't my theory. It is the theory of the Whitechapel murder investigation concerning Eddowes.

It is that how you explain this away for your suspect Carl Feigenbaum? That he didn't deposit the apron piece there?
I dont think the killer deposited it in any event as has been theorized, but this is not the thread to go over all of this yet again.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 10-20-2018, 07:26 AM
Batman Batman is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
I dont think the killer deposited it in any event as has been theorized, but this is not the thread to go over all of this yet again.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Thank you for confirming what I thought you believe with regards to this piece of evidence.

This piece of apron evidence and geographic profiling together make a compelling argument for a Ripper staying near Flower & Dean, so I can see why many 'suspect' favorites don't like either piece of evidence, both past and modern.

Obviously, I am of the position that the apron piece and the geographic profile are congruent and compliment each other. In fact, the geographic profile seems to corroborate that the Whitechapel investigators got it right that JtR was living locally and that direction was significant. A modern tool supporting old investigative notions. That's a good sign IMO, not one to be ignored because someone has a favored suspect.
__________________
Bona fide canonical and then some.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 10-20-2018, 07:47 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,222
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Thank you for confirming what I thought you believe with regards to this piece of evidence.

This piece of apron evidence and geographic profiling together make a compelling argument for a Ripper staying near Flower & Dean, so I can see why many 'suspect' favorites don't like either piece of evidence, both past and modern.

Obviously, I am of the position that the apron piece and the geographic profile are congruent and compliment each other. In fact, the geographic profile seems to corroborate that the Whitechapel investigators got it right that JtR was living locally and that direction was significant. A modern tool supporting old investigative notions. That's a good sign IMO, not one to be ignored because someone has a favored suspect.
Favored suspect have nothing to do with accepting or rejecting profiling. I have given the reasons why profiling is not to be relied upon, and that it is at times nothing more than guess work by those who profess to be experts and researchers like you are sadly raken in by it.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.