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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Ann Nichols

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  #71  
Old 10-18-2018, 06:15 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
I am pretty sure in few case JtR went through them all down to the neck bone.
Correct, and Nichols was one of them.
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  #72  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:08 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
Thus I don't think that he was, for example, a horse-slaughterer operating under the delusion that Nichols was a horse. (As has been proposed on this forum before)
And that Isenschmid thought he was butchering a sheep when he mutilated Annie Chapman. Lynn Cates posited that theory, I believe.
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  #73  
Old 10-18-2018, 07:51 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
A thoughtful question Gary,

Several possible explanations.

1. She made her account up.

2. She was actually woken by the passing train, or by some other sound, and missed Nichols arriving at the site.


Steve
Of course, if she entered Bucks Row from Winthrop Street her boots would have made much less noise than if she'd clip-clopped all the way from Brady Street, say.
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  #74  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:12 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Of course, if she entered Bucks Row from Winthrop Street her boots would have made much less noise than if she'd clip-clopped all the way from Brady Street, say.
My guess would be excluding entering via Brown's yard that she came from Court street or more likely Woods Buildings. With the possibility of going to HB first.


Steve
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  #75  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:13 AM
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Casting suspicion on a witness is throughout all of the history of notorious serial crimes and even non-serial ones and is a reason why plenty of witnesses refuse to acknowledge they are one, lest they cast suspicion on themselves. Who hasn't thought a witness was possibly JtR? Be it a witness at any of the canonical crimes. That's probably why PCs looked closely at them and they got investigated. I am just surprised that someone has run with the idea a ripper witness was the murderer. It's the kind of thing one thinks about maybe for a few moments and then gets that such scenarios were likely gone over by investigators at the time.
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  #76  
Old 10-18-2018, 08:27 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
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My guess would be excluding entering via Brown's yard that she came from Court street or more likely Woods Buildings. With the possibility of going to HB first.


Steve
I've always thought that in the early hours HB's yard must have had its attractions for cold/tired/hungry/thirsty unfortunates. At 3.30 am there couldn't have been too many places where a woman might hope to cadge something to eat or drink or have a warm up by the boilers.
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  #77  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:03 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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Originally Posted by Damaso Marte View Post
A week later, the same killer would literally kill somebody outside MULTIPLE people's house! I don't think applying the logic of you, a presumed non-murderer, to the Ripper will get you anywhere.
DM, check out my original post again.

I am asking why he chose to kill Polly just as the street merges into occupied housing.

Eastward is factory units, surely less risky for a would be murderer.

"I don't think applying the logic of you, a presumed non-murderer, to the Ripper will get you anywhere."

I am not trying to get "anywhere"!

I replied to a post by Steve earlier on the boards, in it I said that in my opinion, seemingly small clues in the case may just yield the greatest return.

So again, why did the killer choose to kill Nichols where he did (while acknowledging that Simon Wood posits the theory that Polly was actually killed in Winthrop Street) when there were far safer potential murder sites just up the road?

When we ask that question it is reasonable to conjecture that possibly this was the murderers first "kill", and that he chose to do it where he wouldn't have far to travel to his refuge, either home or work.
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  #78  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:09 AM
Batman Batman is online now
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When we ask that question it is reasonable to conjecture that possibly this was the murderers first "kill", and that he chose to do it where he wouldn't have far to travel to his refuge, either home or work.
It's certainly interesting to speculate this because if you include Martha Tabram as JtR's 'first victim', she fits a central area at the George's Yard buildings with attacks radiating outwards in different directions from this point. It could be that JtR decided to poop where he eats, so to speak. So to throw off the scent, he murdered Nichols further away from his home. He continues this radiating out in different directions to avoid the focus on George Yard buildings. It works. Tabram is no longer a JtR victim. He keeps striking outwards because it works.

This makes heaps of sense to me.
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  #79  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:23 AM
barnflatwyngarde barnflatwyngarde is offline
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It's certainly interesting to speculate this because if you include Martha Tabram as JtR's 'first victim', she fits a central area at the George's Yard buildings with attacks radiating outwards in different directions from this point. It could be that JtR decided to poop where he eats, so to speak. So to throw off the scent, he murdered Nichols further away from his home. He continues this radiating out in different directions to avoid the focus on George Yard buildings. It works. Tabram is no longer a JtR victim. He keeps striking outwards because it works.

This makes heaps of sense to me.
Yep Batman, good points.

Again, it's simple and logical.
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  #80  
Old 10-18-2018, 09:26 AM
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Yep Batman, good points.

Again, it's simple and logical.
Also, JtR couldn't have known about geoprofiling at the time because it's a 90s discovery. It works on the basis that subconsciously they will do this and therefore triangulate their position mathematically within areas of probability for where they live/work.

Today forensic awareness of this by offenders changes things up a bit, but back in 1888, no way!

I think this is one of the few solid leads we have in this case.
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