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  #371  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:44 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I can see by your recent posts Simon why it is that you disagree with me on where this backstory may have come from, but I think in both of our scenarios it may have been the authorities that provided one.

As to who was in that room I can only say that the severity of damage to her face alone could be construed as an attempt to conceal her real face. Which would bring up the question...who might be recognizable to the authorities?

If she may have spent time in the company of Fenian plotters as some pseudo spy for the intelligence community, that might explain both the need for a backstory at all, and her being recognizable to some authorizes. Since the intelligence community essentially ran these investigations there may be some story there.
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  #372  
Old 10-16-2018, 04:22 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
The victim needn't have told anybody anything.

Barnett, Felix and Carthy filled in the details. The whole of the MJK back-story came from them—nobody else—and might not have had anything to do with the body in Room 13.
I see no reason to suppose that they'd made it up - why would they? Besides, Barnett seems to have been independent of Mrs Carthy and Mrs Felix, but his account of Kelly's background is congruent with theirs. For this to have happened, the source of MJK's back-story would have to have been MJK herself; and, as Gary Barnett has already said, a number of elements within that back-story have subsequently been found to check out.
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  #373  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:13 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Hi Sam,

Barnett, Felix and Carthy may have known one another.

Regards,

Simon
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  #374  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:44 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Hi Sam,

Barnett, Felix and Carthy may have known one another.

Regards,

Simon
Are you saying you think they did, or merely theorising that any three people who lived in the East End may have known each other?

If the former, I'd love to hear your evidence for Barnett knowing the other two! If the latter, no need to respond.
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  #375  
Old 10-16-2018, 10:00 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Did Joseph Barnett know Mrs Felix and Mrs Carthy?

You'll have to decide for yourself.

The man Joseph Barnett called Morganstone [who had lived with Kelly] was Adrianus Morganstern, a gas stoker.

In 1891 Morganstern lived with Elizabeth Felix [wrongly named Phoenix] at 157 Bow Common Lane, the address she gave to the police at Leman Street police station on Sunday 11th November 1888 when telling her part of the Mary Kelly narrative.

Kelly, she said, had lived in her brother-in-law's house on Breezer's Hill.

The brother-in-law's name was Johannes Morganstern. He lived with Elizabeth Boekü [Buki] at 79 Pennington Street [adjacent to Breezers Hill].

Mrs McCarthy [or Carthy?], the third person involved in the Kelly narrative, lived at 1 Breezer's Hill.

All credit to Neal Sheldon for his research.

Regards,

Simon
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  #376  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:25 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Barnett, Felix and Carthy may have known one another.
They lived in different parts of the East End, and I'm unaware of anything that places Barnett in or around the Ratcliffe Highway, whence Carthy and Felix hailed.
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  #377  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:30 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Wood View Post
Did Joseph Barnett know Mrs Felix and Mrs Carthy?

You'll have to decide for yourself.

The man Joseph Barnett called Morganstone [who had lived with Kelly] was Adrianus Morganstern, a gas stoker.

In 1891 Morganstern lived with Elizabeth Felix [wrongly named Phoenix] at 157 Bow Common Lane, the address she gave to the police at Leman Street police station on Sunday 11th November 1888 when telling her part of the Mary Kelly narrative.

Kelly, she said, had lived in her brother-in-law's house on Breezer's Hill.

The brother-in-law's name was Johannes Morganstern. He lived with Elizabeth Boekü [Buki] at 79 Pennington Street [adjacent to Breezers Hill].

Mrs McCarthy [or Carthy?], the third person involved in the Kelly narrative, lived at 1 Breezer's Hill.

All credit to Neal Sheldon for his research.

Regards,

Simon
Oh dear, you are behind the times.

There was a Mrs McCarthy living at 1, Breezers Hill in 1891, but she wasn't 'Mrs McCarthy' in 1888.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 10-16-2018 at 11:43 PM.
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  #378  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:31 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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They lived in different parts of the East End, and I'm unaware of anything that places Barnett in or around the Ratcliffe Highway, whence Carthy and Felix hailed.
He was born nearby, of course. And according to his Billingsgate records, he did live there as an adult.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 10-16-2018 at 11:35 PM.
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  #379  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:46 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Ah, I was unaware of his adult connection. Thanks, Gary.
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  #380  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:08 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Ah, I was unaware of his adult connection. Thanks, Gary.
He gave NE Passage as an address to the Billingsgate authorities, I believe. That was off Wellclose Square, which in turn was just across the Highway from Breezers Hill. Pearly Poll and her old man lived there too.

You may read how, when his father died, he and his siblings moved to the 'notorious slum' of Great Pearl Street. A veritable paradise in comparison to the Blue Anchor Yard court where he had been born, I'd say. The McCarthies also lived in a BAY court (they were Eastenders long before they moved to the Borough) as did the family of Margaret Sullivan, who later became William Crossingham's wife.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 10-17-2018 at 12:36 AM.
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