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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman)

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  #521  
Old 10-16-2018, 01:08 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
"I find it rather hard to believe that a comparative newcomer to an area like Whitechapel would commit such audacious crimes knowing that he'd face a 15-20 minute walk - at least once, apparently, in daylight - before reaching the saftety of home."

But wouldn't a couple of dry runs using different routes overcome that problem?
Possibly, but once we start doing that kind of thing, we're in the territory of inventing handy mechanisms/excuses to get around a problem.

This mechanism/excuse creates a problem of its own, in that it supposes that Kłosowski landed in Whitechapel (St George in the East, to be more accurate) as a fully-formed Ripper, and almost immediately started "practising" for the Autumn of Terror. Assuming he arrived in Cable Street before the murders started, which is by no means certain as I've said.

Even with "dry runs", the fact remains that he'd have been out in the open for a reasonably long time after each murder, Stride excepted. Furthermore, his route back to Cable Street would entail him having to traverse some well-lit and comparatively busy routes at some point (e.g. Commercial Road, Whitechapel Road), at least once in daylight after the Hanbury St murder.

These problems aren't overwhelming, but they require at least some degree of ingenuity (or excuse-making) to get around them. However, such concerns simply wouldn't exist for a Ripper who was based more centrally to the murders, e.g. in Spitalfields, as opposed to a Ripper based in St George-in-the-East.

And let's not forget that the killer's apparent trajectory from the Eddowes murder indicates that he was headed Northeast into Spitalfields, not Southeast towards Cable Street. "Ah, but he could have been laying a false trail!", comes the objection; perhaps so, but that would be yet another mechanism/excuse that would be needed to keep Kłosowski in the frame, and they all add up.
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  #522  
Old 10-16-2018, 01:10 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Chapman is a candidate because he is a serial killer living in Whitechapel at the time of the murders.
We don't know that for certain, on both counts. Precisely when he arrived in Whitechapel (St George-in-the-East) is unknown, and at face value Kłosowski wouldn't become a serial killer until nine years later.
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  #523  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:32 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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Hi Abby
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Its the huge change in MO-and I can certainly see the point. One of the biggest changes in MO Ive ever seen in SKs. However, its not enough to rule him out.
There is also the huge change in his life.
Think about the life he was leading prior to moving to London.
Doing all the shittty jobs in the hospital. Not a big leap to Ripper world

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And of course, he was abusive toward women and i think if theres any link it could be seen as similar deep seated psychologocal desire to utterly control and dominate women. different women/circs different MO-kind of like Abberline alluded to.
Yes, if anything the Ripper was kinder to his victims than poisoner Chapman ever was.

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hes got alot else going for him-there at the time, basically fits descriptions, known to have a peaked cap, surgical experience, abberline suspected. fits profile of local avg joe.
I`ve not seen anything to rule him out.

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my main problem is not the poisoning thing, its that he would have had a thick accent and no one who heard the ripper suspects ever mentioned a heavy accent-which they would have.
No-one heard a possible Ripper speak except Mrs Long, and Hutchinson, and they both thought their men were foreigners.
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  #524  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:33 AM
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We don't know that for certain, on both counts. Precisely when he arrived in Whitechapel (St George-in-the-East) is unknown, and at face value Kłosowski wouldn't become a serial killer until nine years later.
We don't know if JtR killed before the autumn of terror or not.

Klosowski's passport was valid until November 1887 so he wasn't in Poland after that date. Klosowski was likely in England before that date. There is no reason not to assume that he was in London by that time, which not just allows for nearly a year to learn the streets but also means he was available for the non-canonical murders also.
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  #525  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:06 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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There is also the huge change in his life.
No more so than when Lucy Baderski (the real Mrs Kłosowski) and Annie Chapman, and their children, left him in the 1890s. It was also at the beginning of this decade that Kłosowski's son, Władysław, died in infancy.
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  #526  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:12 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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known to have a peaked cap
He is only known to have possessed a peaked ("sailor's") cap in the mid/late-1890s, a period during which he'd moved to the seaside and taken up sailing as a hobby; was this a coincidence? Could be, but I'd suggest it would have been less likely for him to have developed a particular fondness for sailing gear in land-locked Warsaw, where he still lived in the year before the Whitechapel Murders.
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surgical experience
Not really.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 10-16-2018 at 03:21 AM. Reason: formatting/punctuation
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  #527  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:18 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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No more so than when Lucy Baderski (the real Mrs Kłosowski) and Annie Chapman, and their children, left him in the 1890s. It was also at the beginning of this decade that Kłosowski's son, Władysław, died in infancy.

Indeed, didn`t he move to the USA after the death of their son.
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  #528  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:35 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Indeed, didn`t he move to the USA after the death of their son.
I believe so, John - 1891.
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  #529  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:38 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is offline
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I believe so, John - 1891.
Yes, just after he had murdered Franny Coles.
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  #530  
Old 10-16-2018, 03:58 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Yes, just after he had murdered Franny Coles.
Welcome to National Circular Argument Week

I find it hard to believe that Kłosowski went out a-killing not long after the birth of his son, and barely a fortnight before his premature death. Recall that this was the same Kłosowski who had not long ago nursed back to health the sick child of Ethel Radin, something she remembered with apparent gratitude many years later. If he could do that for an unrelated mother and child, how much more so would he have been disposed to do so for his own (legitimate) wife and first son?
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