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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Kosminski, Aaron

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  #181  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:37 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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ive never ruled out Chapman on difference in MO/sig from being the ripper-ive actually got him in my top tier of valid suspects.

its hard to rule him out also because of all the other things hes got going for him-suspected by the most reliable cop on the scene, was their right in the thick of it at the time, known serial killer of women. he also threatened one of his wives with a knife and was abusive towards all. Known surgical experience.
witness descriptions dont rule him out.


that being said, the change in MO AND sig is pretty big-if he was the ripper, probably the biggest change ever for a serial killer.
Probably? What change could be bigger...?
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  #182  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:42 AM
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That should go without saying - and I never claimed anything along those lines, did I? What I instead said - and what you seemingly deny - is that media will have had a large impact on the thinking process of the serial killers of the modern world.

MO may have changed from the advent of serial crime, but the press and media coverage will have played a large role for todays killers.

No media coverage, though, will ever have reported on a serial killer who went from eviscerations to poisoning. Where are the examples of such or parallel matters I asked for, Batman?

PS. What should we call a serialist who goes from eviscerations to poisoning? "The poiscerator"? "The multitask killer"?
Oh, wait, I´ve got it: "The Jack of all trades killer"!
I am not denying that they can learn from others. I am just refuting the idea Chapman wouldn't have changed a MO because it's a modern thing.

I said that is no reason to reject that he can change his MO because he can come up with the idea himself. If you accept that latter, that he can independently acquire such knowledge meaning he can change his MO. So no barrier there. That's all I have been saying on this point and haven't changed it.
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  #183  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:53 AM
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Probably? What change could be bigger...?
I have pointed this out several times but maybe I need to actually go into the details.

BTK murdered a family violently. He was a bondage freak. He strangled/suffocated most of his victims. This was a close one to one contact with a victim. He murdered 10 people this way.

His last victim was 1991.

14 years later, and with no murders, or even so much as an assault, we find Rader is still breaking the law and gaining power over women and families, but in a totally different way. He is a compliance officer using this as cover to extract psychological terror on his victims. He doesn't even touch them. One of his victims was his co-worker Mary Capps. She is psychologically damaged because of him. He was patrolling looking for dog poop so he could deliberately invade people's lives. Measured their lawn height with a yardstick.

Here is one of his victims - https://youtu.be/UHPz931jO3A?t=2005

It was being the "King of Park City" that satisfied him.

From Serial Killer to Compliance Officer. He wasn't even murdering. Chapman poisoned.
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  #184  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:28 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Known surgical experience.
That's not quite true - Kłosowski wasn't a surgeon in the modern "western" sense. If we were looking for Jack the Boil-Lancer you might be onto something.
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  #185  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:41 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Probably? What change could be bigger...?
well not Torso man to ripper-that's for sure! : )
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #186  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:42 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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That's not quite true - Kłosowski wasn't a surgeon in the modern "western" sense. If we were looking for Jack the Boil-Lancer you might be onto something.
LOL! good one Sam!
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #187  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:03 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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If you have the book I referenced it referenced that article and a few others. Do you have that book?
I do, and it's excellent; I even have a credit in it
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Here is a quote from the book.

Pressmen saw Chapman for the very first time. The Daily Mail said he appeared ‘haggard and distressed’, and that his fingers ‘clutched in agitation’ at his nautical pilot’s cap. The blue of his double-breasted, serge sailor’s suit ‘intensified his pallor, and he seemed to feel the full significance of the accusation’.
Again - this was not his trial, but his initial hearing at Southwark Police Court prior to his trial at the Old Bailey. So your assertion that he "dressed like a sailor at his trial" was incorrect, as I've already pointed said.

The fact that a Daily Mail reporter described him thus does not mean that he was "dressed like a sailor", anymore than someone wearing cowboy boots means that they're dressed like a cowboy. A journalist might describe them thus, but that's just a way of conveying a picture to the reader. From contemporary illustrations, he seems to have been wearing fairly ordinary clothes, the cap notwithstanding.

If your Kindle copy of Helena's book contains illustrations, one of them shows him leaving the Police Court, and there are others of him during those proceedings; even a couple of mugshot photos. In none of these does he look much like a sailor to me.
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  #188  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:21 AM
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I do, and it's excellent; I even have a credit in it

Again - this was not his trial, but his initial hearing at Southwark Police Court prior to his trial at the Old Bailey. So your assertion that he "dressed like a sailor at his trial" was incorrect, as I've already pointed said.

The fact that a Daily Mail reporter described him thus does not mean that he was "dressed like a sailor", anymore than someone wearing cowboy boots means that they're dressed like a cowboy. A journalist might describe them thus, but that's just a way of conveying a picture to the reader. From contemporary illustrations, he seems to have been wearing fairly ordinary clothes, the cap notwithstanding.

If your Kindle copy of Helena's book contains illustrations, one of them shows him leaving the Police Court, and there are others of him during those proceedings; even a couple of mugshot photos. In none of these does he look much like a sailor to me.
It's obviously an observation by someone who was there, unlike us. I know you might not like that he is described as wearing a nautical cap and navy style clothing but it's a fact of the matter. He even bought a boat. The Mosquito. Donned his nautical suit and P&O cap and boasted that he one day cross the Boulogue.

If you have read her book then you are doing your best to miss all this.
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  #189  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:32 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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I am not denying that they can learn from others. I am just refuting the idea Chapman wouldn't have changed a MO because it's a modern thing.

I said that is no reason to reject that he can change his MO because he can come up with the idea himself. If you accept that latter, that he can independently acquire such knowledge meaning he can change his MO. So no barrier there. That's all I have been saying on this point and haven't changed it.
I accept that killers can change their MO. It is in evidence, so I would not refute it.
What I would refute, however, is that a serial killer with an urge for cutting and eviscerating would turn into a serial poisoner. That will not happen, as far as I´m concerned. It is completely unlikely for reasons that should be obvious.
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  #190  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:37 AM
Fisherman Fisherman is offline
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I have pointed this out several times but maybe I need to actually go into the details.

BTK murdered a family violently. He was a bondage freak. He strangled/suffocated most of his victims. This was a close one to one contact with a victim. He murdered 10 people this way.

His last victim was 1991.

14 years later, and with no murders, or even so much as an assault, we find Rader is still breaking the law and gaining power over women and families, but in a totally different way. He is a compliance officer using this as cover to extract psychological terror on his victims. He doesn't even touch them. One of his victims was his co-worker Mary Capps. She is psychologically damaged because of him. He was patrolling looking for dog poop so he could deliberately invade people's lives. Measured their lawn height with a yardstick.

Here is one of his victims - https://youtu.be/UHPz931jO3A?t=2005

It was being the "King of Park City" that satisfied him.

From Serial Killer to Compliance Officer. He wasn't even murdering. Chapman poisoned.
I have little doubt that Rader will have been a control freak as a killer too. Control will quite probably have been the ingredient he relished most during his murders.

His refraining from murder does not make him a good comparison to a man who goes from arguably the most intimate and hands-on type of murder to a distanced career as a poisoner. There is nothing apt in the comparison at all in my view.

What other serial killer has engaged in two such different types of murder? I ask you again. If you have no examples, then just say so.
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