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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #221  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:48 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.
Schwartz claimed to be there at the time Stride was murdered (and was obviously there and murdered). Are you suggesting he was or wasn't there?

Also, how do you explain that Swanson basically said Pipeman wasn't considered a suspect?
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  #222  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:20 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
In a densely populated, violent corner of London where many had access to knives, and at a time when other unfortunates were killed by someone (or ones) other than Jack.Or red herrings.
Hi Sam
I think your missing the big picture.

As violent as WC was, murder was still rare.

and we have a suspect peaked cap man, seen by several witnesses with Stride and eddowes and also en route between Dutfield yard and Mitre Square with the anon Church st sighting, I think its fairly reasonable that the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and murdered both Stride and Eddowes.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #223  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:21 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.
I do!!
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #224  
Old 09-26-2018, 07:22 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.
Hi Harry
Seems like Brown didn't see stride-the man he described is not like the others.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #225  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:16 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.
No.Baxter's summation,Brown was the last man.Post #187 193 211.
The 2 different versions by Schwartz made it clear he was unreliable.
Baxter rightly ignored him although his was the most crucial testimony,as
far as who was the perpetrator.


---
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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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Last edited by Varqm : 09-26-2018 at 08:34 AM.
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  #226  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:22 AM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Loyalty to his fellow jews/immigrants?
There was no point.The IWEC members present were already interviewed/examined and cleared as told by Reid.15 min fame,money.

----
__________________
Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
M. Pacana
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  #227  
Old 09-26-2018, 08:34 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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There was no point.The IWEC members present were already interviewed/examined and cleared as told by Reid.15 min fame,money.

----
That's right. They were all examined and questioned. No blood on them. No knife. Door to door inquiries were carried out even in adjoining streets about the area. Some of those members were even seen going into the club and others had to take the side door and saw nothing.

Stride was quickly blitzed. The neckerchief she was wearing had been tightened as if pulled upon.

Schwartz described a blitz attack. That's not a bad guess from someone supposedly making up stories.
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  #228  
Old 09-26-2018, 09:30 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi Sam
I think your missing the big picture.
Quite the opposite, Abby. I believe that I'm looking at the big picture. A picture which includes, among other things, the fact that - with the sole exception of Stride - all the other murders usually attributed to the Ripper happened north of an axis delineated by Whitechapel Road.
Quote:
As violent as WC was, murder was still rare.
Not, apparently, in the years encompassing all the Whitechapel Murders.
Quote:
and we have a suspect peaked cap man, seen by several witnesses with Stride and eddowes and also en route between Dutfield yard and Mitre Square with the anon Church st sighting, I think its fairly reasonable that the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and murdered both Stride and Eddowes.
Peaked caps were a common type of headgear among the working classes, so I don't read too much significance into that - at least, not so much that I'd hang my hat on it. Pardon pun.
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  #229  
Old 09-26-2018, 10:05 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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Maybe it is just me but I can't understand why more people just don't think what the police thought in 1888 and that is Jack was interrupted killing Liz. It needn't have been Diemschultz who he heard arriving, any noise from the club might have made him think he was in danger. Liz was murdered in Whitechapel, a prostitute probably looking for clients that night. Killed in the early hours of the morning swiftly and silently [No I don't believe BS was Jack], in a darkened corner by a knife being drawn across her throat. Yes, there are subtle differences but show me a serial killer who murders each victim exactly verbatim. As for Kate if you take into account he might have had a bolt hole near Mitre-square, taking into account the finding of the rag and all that, which he may have used for a few minutes to clean himself up a little and calm himself down after Liz, and then again after Kate [said bolthole]. Also is it just possible that he killed Liz a little too close to home [maybe Jack was a member of the IWEC]? Maybe he realized this and he wanted to draw the police away by hoping to find another victim further away but at the same time near somewhere, he felt comfortable [again bolthole]. Also heading northwards and dropping the apron in Goulston st he may have tried putting the police off his scent a little bit more than he had [conjecture I know] if he did have connections to Berner St.
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  #230  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:12 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Maybe it is just me but I can't understand why more people just don't think what the police thought in 1888 and that is Jack was interrupted killing Liz. It needn't have been Diemschultz who he heard arriving, any noise from the club might have made him think he was in danger. Liz was murdered in Whitechapel, a prostitute probably looking for clients that night. Killed in the early hours of the morning swiftly and silently [No I don't believe BS was Jack], in a darkened corner by a knife being drawn across her throat. Yes, there are subtle differences but show me a serial killer who murders each victim exactly verbatim. As for Kate if you take into account he might have had a bolt hole near Mitre-square, taking into account the finding of the rag and all that, which he may have used for a few minutes to clean himself up a little and calm himself down after Liz, and then again after Kate [said bolthole]. Also is it just possible that he killed Liz a little too close to home [maybe Jack was a member of the IWEC]? Maybe he realized this and he wanted to draw the police away by hoping to find another victim further away but at the same time near somewhere, he felt comfortable [again bolthole]. Also heading northwards and dropping the apron in Goulston st he may have tried putting the police off his scent a little bit more than he had [conjecture I know] if he did have connections to Berner St.
So many aspects of the Stride murder which make it different from all the others, and suggest she was killed by a different hand.

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