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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #211  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:04 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Schwartz told 2 different stories and cannot be relied upon.

Following Baxter's summation,ignored by many, that Brown saw Stride last,the man he'd seen with Stride might/must have been a possible "suspect",the couple went after into Dutfields Yard.Or the man left and Stride met the killer.Either way it would still be like the C4,the killer seen by a witness standing close to the victim before their deaths,not a domestic/assault or something "vulgar".There was no BS man and Pipeman.

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  #212  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:19 PM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Schwartz was full of BS, man.
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  #213  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:21 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Two murders by knife with such a short space of time and distance.
In a densely populated, violent corner of London where many had access to knives, and at a time when other unfortunates were killed by someone (or ones) other than Jack.
Quote:
Coincidences do happen....but we are far too late in proceedings to go chasing wild geese.
Or red herrings.
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Last edited by Sam Flynn : 09-25-2018 at 11:27 PM.
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  #214  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:50 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry D View Post
Schwartz was full of BS, man.
- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.He could not speak English and, that we know of, he did not attempt to make money.Maybe he tried.

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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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Last edited by Varqm : 09-25-2018 at 11:54 PM.
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  #215  
Old 09-26-2018, 01:43 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is online now
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So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.
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  #216  
Old 09-26-2018, 02:05 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.
Loyalty to his fellow jews/immigrants?
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  #217  
Old 09-26-2018, 03:29 AM
Batman Batman is online now
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Default How Should Schwartz be totally lying if he was there?

Stride was attacked and murdered at Dutsfield yard to the best of our knowledge. She was there. She is murdered.

She was seen by a PC at Berner Street. 12:35am, 25 minutes before her body was found.

In order for Schwartz to be a total liar, he mustn't be there at all. Yet the police found no evidence to suggest he wasn't there at the time and for the reasons he gave.

So the liar claim can only be a partial-liar claim. That he was there but lied about what he had seen.

Let's face it, the idea that Schwartz lied has to be a CONSPIRACY THEORY. It would mean all the other witnesses are covering up what happened to Stride as well as Schwartz who was there.
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  #218  
Old 09-26-2018, 03:57 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Stride was attacked and murdered at Dutsfield yard to the best of our knowledge. She was there. She is murdered.

She was seen by a PC at Berner Street. 12:35am, 25 minutes before her body was found.

In order for Schwartz to be a total liar, he mustn't be there at all. Yet the police found no evidence to suggest he wasn't there at the time and for the reasons he gave.

So the liar claim can only be a partial-liar claim. That he was there but lied about what he had seen.

Let's face it, the idea that Schwartz lied has to be a CONSPIRACY THEORY. It would mean all the other witnesses are covering up what happened to Stride as well as Schwartz who was there.
No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.
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  #219  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:35 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectorDave View Post
Two murders by knife with such a short space of time and distance.

Coincidences do happen....but we are far too late in proceedings to go chasing wild geese.
3 knife murders happened on that night, in that area. All 3 victims were women. Coincidental. The third suggests that, it was proven to be unconnected.

And the 2 murders we are talking about bear little if any similarity to each other.
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  #220  
Old 09-26-2018, 04:40 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.He could not speak English and, that we know of, he did not attempt to make money.Maybe he tried.

---
We know that the club made money by showing people the murder scene. And we suspect that Wess translated for him...who knows whether the translation was verbatim or tampered with? Wess it seems translated for Goldstein....the one witness verified as being seen by the gates nearest to the actual time of the murder. He didn't come forward until Tuesday night. Schwartz, on Sunday night.

Liz had an argument with Kidney the last time she saw him, which Kidney denied, that's much more reasonable fodder for theorizing about who murdered her, rather than a ripper who doesn't rip.
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