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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #51  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:05 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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What does this scenario suggest to you?
What was happening?
What this shows is that LE was more than happy to dismiss someone who was working with them.
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  #52  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:35 AM
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With the audacity of the murders and the elusiveness of the murderer, it's tempting to think that the killer must have had some kind of inside track to always remain one step ahead of the law. Bear in mind that the other murders and attacks in Whitechapel at that time were unsolved, same goes for the Torso series. Crimes of this nature were not the bread and butter of the Victorian police force. Random, seemingly motiveless murders where the victims were selected by chance. They had little to no experience investigating serial killers, nor were they equipped with the modern forensic techniques to catch the perpetrator ex postfacto. Personally, I think like most serial killers, the Ripper had the right combination of low cunning and dumb luck to get away with it.
There were regular beats in Whitechapel and then there was the heightened increase in police presence because of the JtR crimes. Most of these traps and stakeouts would not be predictable to the general public.

JtR was operating in the middle of all of this and vanishing without a trace.

What sort of bobby on the beat would walk past Eddowes standing with a man who looks like the description of JtR alone?

Yet apparently JtR just stood there as a group walked by? Let himself be seen? Then knowing he has been seen to go ahead and murder the same woman nearby?

Something doesn't fit here.
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  #53  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:51 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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What sort of bobby on the beat would walk past Eddowes standing with a man who looks like the description of JtR alone?
What did JtR look like?

Quote:
Yet apparently JtR just stood there as a group walked by? Let himself be seen? Then knowing he has been seen to go ahead and murder the same woman nearby?

Something doesn't fit here.
Remember Dahmer, one of his victims escaped into the street and found a cop, Dahmer followed him and took the kid from the cop and returned to his apartment, then killed him.

That aside, I think the timeline of the Eddowes murder & Lawende exiting the club strongly suggest the couple in Duke street were not Eddowes & the killer.
She was already dead in Mitre Square.
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  #54  
Old 09-25-2018, 11:58 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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What this shows is that LE was more than happy to dismiss someone who was working with them.
"Acting in concert" tends to suggest the Blotchy-looking character was working with the police. And, that suggests Galloway saw a re-enactment.
I know of no other instance in 19th century policing where the police staged a public re-enactment.

If this is what it was then that also tells us the police knew more about the movements of the Blotchy suspect than was printed in the press.
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  #55  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:31 PM
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What did JtR look like?

Remember Dahmer, one of his victims escaped into the street and found a cop, Dahmer followed him and took the kid from the cop and returned to his apartment, then killed him.

That aside, I think the timeline of the Eddowes murder & Lawende exiting the club strongly suggest the couple in Duke street were not Eddowes & the killer.
She was already dead in Mitre Square.
Shabby-genteel. I guess I shouldn't say 'what he looked liked' and more like 'man and woman' alone after hours not shy of a drink or two.

I would think that would draw attention after what happened to Chapman.

Is there is a problem with the time-line and Lawende? That would be interesting. Didn't he confirm the woman was wearing the same clothes he saw the woman wearing on Duke Street?

That Dalmer officer should have been fired. All they had to do was take a quick look around him home. Instead, the judge cleared them and they got promoted or something.
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  #56  
Old 09-25-2018, 12:43 PM
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"Acting in concert" tends to suggest the Blotchy-looking character was working with the police. And, that suggests Galloway saw a re-enactment.
I know of no other instance in 19th century policing where the police staged a public re-enactment.

If this is what it was then that also tells us the police knew more about the movements of the Blotchy suspect than was printed in the press.
That doesn't seem like a bad explanation because in the same article it suggests they are still looking for Blotchy and that this wasn't him.

However, what if he was Blotchy and they had Blotchy recount his movements that evening. I suppose that doesn't make much sense because they were claiming he is an upstanding citizen and working with them.
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  #57  
Old 09-25-2018, 02:48 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Is there is a problem with the time-line and Lawende? That would be interesting. Didn't he confirm the woman was wearing the same clothes he saw the woman wearing on Duke Street?
Lawende said they left the club at 12:35, while Watkins discovered the body at 12:44. So nine minutes for the couple in Duke street to walk down the passage 85ft, then 72ft across the square, murder & mutilate the woman, removing two organs, then flee the scene.

Not that it's impossible, the timing had to be precise to the point of it being unlikely. All that would have to happen in nine minutes, and much would depend on how fast the victim would walk the 157+ft to the far corner of the square, given that she was still wearing off the inebriation from 4 hours ago.

Lawende only said the woman wore the same type of clothing, which even Det. McWilliams wrote was not sufficiently conclusive.
I believe he was only shown the clothing, not the body, as he did not see the face of the woman in Duke St.
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Last edited by Wickerman : 09-25-2018 at 02:57 PM.
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  #58  
Old 09-25-2018, 03:21 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
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Add an hour to your timeline.
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  #59  
Old 09-25-2018, 04:47 PM
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That's right. I think maybe Wickerman might be confusing the scenario with Watkins himself finding her body at 1:44 a.m, having previously been there at 1:30 a.m and not seeing a body.

Which means JtR in under 14 minutes did everything.

Now he didn't have to meet her in that time frame. Just get into Mitre Square and do his devil's work.

She was released at 1:00 am from the drunk tank.

Lewende believed he saw here at 1:35 am.

That gives JtR under 9 minutes to do everything if the identification is correct.

So 14 minutes is what he has without Lewende.

and 9 minutes with.
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  #60  
Old 09-25-2018, 05:35 PM
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Yeh, thanks too much talk about Stride recently.
Lawende said 5 minutes after 1:30 (1:35), and Watkins found the body at 1:44 = 9 minutes.
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