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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #141  
Old 09-20-2018, 02:39 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Observer View Post
Then, if he was JTR, why did he not mutilate the body?
I don't know!
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  #142  
Old 09-20-2018, 02:46 PM
Bridewell Bridewell is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
IF the police had a believable, or rather believed, witness statement that was available before Strides Inquest that placed Liz Stride in the hands of someone she is seen being manhandled by just minutes before the estimate time of her throat cut, it would have been submitted to or presented at the Inquest.

It wasn't.

Israel Schwartz offered nothing but a demonstration of his allegiance to his friend, Wess, and his support of the anarchist jews that gathered there. He was very likely a member. Like Goldstein was. Or Eagle.
The purpose of an inquest is to establish when where and how the death occurred. Schwartz would have been needed for a trial where his evidence might be crucial. Did the coroner need to call him in order to establish where when and how Stride was killed? The fact that he wasn't called to give evidence at the inquest doesn't mean that he was discredited as a witness in possible criminal proceedings.
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  #143  
Old 09-20-2018, 02:59 PM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
The purpose of an inquest is to establish when where and how the death occurred. Schwartz would have been needed for a trial where his evidence might be crucial. Did the coroner need to call him in order to establish where when and how Stride was killed? The fact that he wasn't called to give evidence at the inquest doesn't mean that he was discredited as a witness in possible criminal proceedings.
I humbly submit that a story that has her being assaulted within feet of her murder site, within minutes from the estimated cut time...would go a long way when considering how, and when, she died.

The fact that his story does not appear to have been recorded, transcribed or submitted in any form suggests that his story was not deemed relevant...despite the fact that as I suggest, it would certainly be relevant if believed to be true.

I think Israel has occupied a lofty position here, one that is not suggested when considering the Inquest. If you recall, Mrs Fanny Mortimer gave a statement that she did not hear anything, or see anyone but the young couple, in her visits to the door off and on until 12:50...at which point she remained in that position until 1am. No Israel. No Louis arriving at 1am.
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  #144  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:12 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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yes. if anyone pushes, grabs a hold of, and or throws someone to the ground its actually assault and battery. a crime even! clear as day.


not sure what your fixation on this is CD.
Hello Abby,

I guess my question is whether all assaults are equal? If he pinched her in the butt would that be the same as taking a brick and smashing her face in since they are both assaults?

I have a fixation with it because so many posters say how likely is it that a woman would be assaulted twice in the course of a few minutes? They take two events, event A which is Stride being assaulted by the B.S. man and view it in light of event B which is Stride being killed. They are assuming that those two events are related because they are both assaults. But if you drop the assault label from event A and substitute pushed instead the connection with event B is not nearly as strong.

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  #145  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:16 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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"and BTW, being solicited by a woman isn't an excuse for assaulting her. the actions Schwartz described is an assault. period."

Hello Abby,

But how do we know that Stride was not the first to put her hands on him. Maybe she was the aggressor.

c.d.
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  #146  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:29 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Same woman got attacked twice in the space of about 5 minutes by two different men? Not impossible but rather unlikely.
Hello Bridewell,

Change attacked to pushed and change 5 minutes to 15 or 20 and the likelihood increases significantly.

c.d.
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  #147  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:30 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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"I humbly submit that a story that has her being assaulted within feet of her murder site, within minutes from the estimated cut time...would go a long way when considering how, and when, she died."

Hello Michael,

HUMBLY submit? Well there's a first/

c.d.
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  #148  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:33 PM
c.d. c.d. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
IF the police had a believable, or rather believed, witness statement that was available before Strides Inquest that placed Liz Stride in the hands of someone she is seen being manhandled by just minutes before the estimate time of her throat cut, it would have been submitted to or presented at the Inquest.

It wasn't.

Israel Schwartz offered nothing but a demonstration of his allegiance to his friend, Wess, and his support of the anarchist jews that gathered there. He was very likely a member. Like Goldstein was. Or Eagle.
Hello Michael,

We DON'T KNOW why Schwartz was not called at the inquest. Period.

c.d.
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  #149  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:40 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hello Michael,

We DON'T KNOW why Schwartz was not called at the inquest. Period.

c.d.
We do know that his story is not found on any record of the Inquest cd, and that's enough for us to believe that it wasn't relevant or important in the question of how Liz Stride died.

Its not improper to draw conclusions when all the evidence you need is, or isn't, in print right before you. He didn't matter.

Which is counter intuitive when reviewing his statement, if anything he would be THE most valuable witness because his claim makes him the last person to see Liz alive. How could that not be relevant or important to the matter at hand?

Its pretty clear that PC Smith is the last witness to see Liz alive, and she may have been cut in as little as 11 minutes later.
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  #150  
Old 09-21-2018, 02:42 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
"I humbly submit that a story that has her being assaulted within feet of her murder site, within minutes from the estimated cut time...would go a long way when considering how, and when, she died."

Hello Michael,

HUMBLY submit? Well there's a first/

c.d.
Sometimes you have to approach a problem in a manner which has the best chance to succeed. Making this obvious point seemed like one of those problems.
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