Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Wickerman 15 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Sam Flynn 49 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Simon Wood 59 minutes ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Wickerman 2 hours ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Sam Flynn 2 hours ago.
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - by Wickerman 2 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Witnesses: Kennedy and Lewis - (13 posts)
Witnesses: 36 Berner Street............... - (3 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: Did Mary Kelly meet the Bethnal Green Botherer? - (2 posts)
Non-Fiction: Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper? - (1 posts)
Lechmere/Cross, Charles: So if you live in Bethnal Green, you won´t kill in Whitechapel? - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1671  
Old 09-20-2018, 04:58 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,079
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
I have the same problem with Hutchinson as I do with Cross aka Lechmere. If an assumption is made that the individual is a serial killer and then his evidence is examined retrospectively, with that assumption in mind, his every action can be viewed in a sinister light. Thus Crossmere does what any right-thinking individual would have done in the same circumstances and is accused of being JtR. Ditto Hutchinson. Several of the witnesses could have been JtR. Cadosch lived next door to a crime scene and gives himself an alibi for the time when (if Mrs Long is right) Chapman was killed. Schwartz places himself at the scene of the Stride murder and provides an account which conveniently covers the possible need to explain why he might have been seen running away.

Those who claim that Lechmere was JtR accept that Hutchinson wasn't. Those who claim that Hutchinson was JtR accept that Lechmere wasn't. So why should those of us without a horse in that particular race accept that either of them was anything more than they claimed to be? One or other of the witnesses could have been JtR but I see no evidence that any of them actually was - just supposition and theory.
Hi bridewell
The difference being there really are no red flags with those witnesses.

Hutch, lech, and some extent richardson all have have red flags with there stories.

They were all close to the victims around time of death and have de facto issues with there stories.

These are the types that need closer scrutiny.
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1672  
Old 09-20-2018, 05:53 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
.....If Hutch was the most significant witness and subsequent inquiries proved to be positive why then did not the police used him as a witness in the Sadler case and the seaside home identification?
What do they do, put a Wanted add in the papers for Mr George Hutchinson to come to the station?
It's not like we haven't been over that before.

Lawende had a business, the police knew where to find him.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1673  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:07 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
sarah lewis only corroborates his stalking behavior.
Bowyer corroborates nothing
no one corroborates Mary out at that time or Aman.
The press report about Bowyer tells us he saw the same man described by Hutchinson.

"Early on Friday morning Bowyer saw a man, whose description tallies with that of the supposed murderer. Bowyer has, he says, described this man to Inspector Abberline and Inspector Reid."
The Echo, 14 Nov. 1888.

This was on the 14th, the only description published as the murderer was that given by Hutchinson.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1674  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:09 PM
Scott Nelson Scott Nelson is offline
Inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,230
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Lawende had a business, the police knew where to find him.
Probably after they interviewed John Hyam, the manager of the Imperial Club.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1675  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:11 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
However, Hutchinson does't mention her. If he'd wanted to reinforce his credibility - as if to say, "I must have been the man seen by Lewis, because I saw her enter the Court" - surely he'd have gone out of his way to do so, yet he didn't mention seeing her at all. (Before Jon chips in, I really don't buy the idea that Hutchinson or Badham wouldn't have been interested in reporting having seen a female.)
As I've said before Gareth, Hutchinson was not defending himself in his statement. It was Abberline who would have asked him for some corroboration and we do not know what words passed between Abberline and Hutchinson.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1676  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:15 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
why dosnt he mention it in his inquest statement?

Bowyer's was only questioned about his discovery of the body, not what he was doing seven hours before.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1677  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:21 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Thanks trevor

I remember Debs a few years back finding an article in a paper (ibeleive different from the one you mentioned) that has a direct quote from Bowyer saying he was in the court around 3ish and NOT seeing anyone. and saying something to the effect that the killer was maybe in her room at the time and regretting he could have caught him.

do you remember?


so, that story dosnt corroborate Hutchs Aman, and to my mind cast a bit of suspicion on Bowyer.
This must be what you are referring to.

"He said to an Echo reporter this morning. "The murderer couldn't have come to a worse place (for escaping) than this court. There is only this narrow entrance, and If I had known he was there when I went to the water tap at three o'clock, I reckon he wouldn't have got off."

It's part of the same article quoted by Trevor & myself.
All he is saying is that he hadn't realised that man he saw had been the killer.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1678  
Old 09-20-2018, 06:26 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Trevor, a contemporary newspaper report is a primary source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primary_source
It's not really a question of whether a newspaper is a primary or secondary source. Such a statement is misleading.

It is the stories that are either primary or secondary.
A newspaper provides both primary & secondary stories.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1679  
Old 09-20-2018, 10:58 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridewell View Post
I have the same problem with Hutchinson as I do with Cross aka Lechmere. If an assumption is made that the individual is a serial killer and then his evidence is examined retrospectively, with that assumption in mind, his every action can be viewed in a sinister light. Thus Crossmere does what any right-thinking individual would have done in the same circumstances and is accused of being JtR. Ditto Hutchinson. Several of the witnesses could have been JtR. Cadosch lived next door to a crime scene and gives himself an alibi for the time when (if Mrs Long is right) Chapman was killed. Schwartz places himself at the scene of the Stride murder and provides an account which conveniently covers the possible need to explain why he might have been seen running away.

Those who claim that Lechmere was JtR accept that Hutchinson wasn't. Those who claim that Hutchinson was JtR accept that Lechmere wasn't. So why should those of us without a horse in that particular race accept that either of them was anything more than they claimed to be? One or other of the witnesses could have been JtR but I see no evidence that any of them actually was - just supposition and theory.
I totally agree

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1680  
Old 09-20-2018, 11:02 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi bridewell
The difference being there really are no red flags with those witnesses.

Hutch, lech, and some extent richardson all have have red flags with there stories.
The only red flags there are, are those created by researchers who think to much, and want to see what is not there to be seen

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.