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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Elizabeth Stride

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  #101  
Old 09-18-2018, 06:46 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
I've always been partial to the idea that Jack used a ligature/cord to strangle his victims (Dr. Brownfield's theory)
The difference between a top button being undone or being torn open may be nothing more than the difference between a tight or loose fitting top button.

I wouldn't rule out the victim being responsible for this, in a desperate attempt to remove the ligature. There doesn't seem to be a rationale need for the killer to do that, unless he was looking for a necklace?
Hi Jon. Stride dying with her neck directly over a gutter or wheel rut is as peculiar to me as Jack the Ripper murdering Chapman in some random backyard that happens to have a leather apron (during the week when LA was Prime Suspect Numerous Uno). Not to say Stride staggered or he carried her; only that he may have adjusted her body around the place where she, uh, "dropped". Dropped, hm.. if only we knew how the cachous were scattered, we might be able to determine if she was assaulted while standing or while prostrate on the ground. My vocab is limited; so if prostrate doesn't work in that last sentence, feel free to modify.

Yea, I'm still sequencing to see if the Ripper's developed a general method of attack. Im not entirely certain that his blade could have been lightsaber sharp where Jack the Ripper could cut from front to spine (albeit both of them standing) with one swipe of the blade, seems like you would need more force (or, is it fulcrum?)... uh, leverage. I favor strangulation as well, Jon; and, I think he had success with it to varying degrees. Chapman is supposed to be wearing some black scarf (what happened to that thing anyways?) under her handkerchief, so (maybe) the extra padding makes for an unsuccessful throttling and Jack the Ripper has a fight on his hands.

I'd favor strangulation over, say, chloroform (Stride would have vomited up her cheese and powder, the Drs would have smelled it). If I knew how Liz wore her bonnet, I might be able to substantiate that she was already lying down when her throat was sliced open. The placement of the bonnet is a reason that I can't get behind her crawling for help unless she so happened to throw it before she died. If she wore the bonnet with the strings tied in the front, then surely they would have been cut... if she was assaulted while standing. I'm partial to the Ripper removing the bonnet and opening the top of her dress so that he could have better access to her throat. However, your idea about the necklace has interest.

The most mysterious aspects surrounding her death (besides the obvious) are the blood clots on the back of her hand and that blood-stained abrasion under her right arm. I have no good suggestions for either. That the clots were oblong ( as posted here recently) may have been caused by drops of blood off the edge of his blade, dunno.
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  #102  
Old 09-18-2018, 06:54 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
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>> ... if only we knew how the cachous were scattered<<

Wedo know, Blackwell scattered them. They were in the "packet" until he tried to open Mrs. Stride's hand, as per his testimony, when he was recalled to explain.
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  #103  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:00 AM
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And Elizabeth Long's appearance at the Chapman inquest being followed by the murder of a woman nicknamed Long Liz.
And Long Liz being taken [permanently] from Michael Kidney, shortly before a kidney was taken from Kate Eddowes.
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  #104  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:15 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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The oblong blood clots to the back of the hand: the blood oozed through her fingers as her hand goes instinctively to her cut throat and then seeps down to the back of her hand.
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  #105  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:23 AM
Harry D Harry D is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
But of course, the cry of Lipski aimed at a man of strong Jewish appearance would almost certainly be thrown by a Gentile thus casting doubt on the IWEC being involved in the strong anti-Semitic climate.
It's so obvious.
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  #106  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:16 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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It's so obvious.
What isn't obvious is why a man would pull a woman out into the street to try/kill her where all and sundry, anybody looking outside the upstairs socialist club front window for instance, and yes he BSM must have heard the noise emanating from the building from seeing him. Not forgetting the two witnesses of course. Was he trying to enter Victorians dumbest murderers?

Last edited by Darryl Kenyon : 09-19-2018 at 06:34 AM.
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  #107  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:47 AM
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If he wasn't the killer, he made a great fall guy for whoever was. If Jack saw him manhandling Stride, and saw Schwartz watching this happen, he'd have been a happy Jacky.

Love,

Caz
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  #108  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:55 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
What isn't obvious is why a man would pull a woman out into the street to try/kill her where all and sundry, anybody looking outside the upstairs socialist club front window for instance, and yes he BSM must have heard the noise emanating from the building from seeing him. Not forgetting the two witnesses of course. Was he trying to enter Victorians dumbest murderers?
Maybe because he lost his temper trying for a long time to get her to a secluded area, and she wasn't going?
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  #109  
Old 09-19-2018, 01:25 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Possibly Stride was not alone in the gateway, she was with Parcel-man. She was with him just minutes before, but on the other side of the street.

BS-man passed bye and suspected what they were up to, so he grabbed her pulling/pushing her down, as if to say 'we don't want your sort around here'.

This was the altercation witnessed by Schwartz, while Parcel-man was standing back out of sight in the shadows. Schwartz walked away diagonally across the road, his attention was on the scuffle unfolding in the gateway, not on anyone standing in the shadows.

If this is how events unfolded, Parcel-man may have been Stride's killer.

If BS-man was not her killer, then we have to believe a second man came on the scene unknown to everyone. Or, one of the men already present was the killer.
For me the choices are between Pipeman or Parcel-man. Yet we are told Pipeman followed Schwartz away from the scene, which leaves the question, what happened to Parcel-man, and was he the only man left with Stride?
so lets see
we have parcel man, pipe man or phantom man as Strides killer? Am I missing anyone?

oh yeah, BS man-the only one actually seen assaulting her right before she was killed. A man who fits not only the other witness descriptions including lawende later at the Eddowes murder sight, but also the rippers description generally.

only in ripperology. good grief.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #110  
Old 09-19-2018, 01:29 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by c.d. View Post
Hello Abby,

You are still using the term "assaulting." Are you sure that is correct?

c.d.
yes. if anyone pushes, grabs a hold of, and or throws someone to the ground its actually assault and battery. a crime even! clear as day.


not sure what your fixation on this is CD.
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