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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Motive, Method and Madness

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  #11  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:40 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Not so in the Torso cases. If the perpetrator(s) of those intended a sexual display, they'd have kept the legs on and spread them apart.
You can’t get more ‘spread apart’ than a couple of miles Gareth
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:24 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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The thought had occurred to me, Herlock
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:41 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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I think some murders within these 2 groups do not show any signs that the nature of the crime was at all sexual. I believe Annies murder seems almost clinical in comparison, for one. Primarily, actions taken to achieve an objective. It would seem unlikely that whomever killed Polly would have had anything intimate and sexual on his mind, the location doesn't seem the proper venue for it. In Mitre Square, if we are to believe Lawende's sighting was indeed of Kate, he had to work fast to be out of the square by Harveys look in, or Watkins next pass. No time to get too preoccupied.

The Torso murders were likely of that ilk though. They were done in private. Perhaps over a matter of days, certainly of many hours. We never found the entirety of the remains. They were much younger women than most of the Canonical Group.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:31 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
I think some murders within these 2 groups do not show any signs that the nature of the crime was at all sexual. I believe Annies murder seems almost clinical in comparison, for one. Primarily, actions taken to achieve an objective. It would seem unlikely that whomever killed Polly would have had anything intimate and sexual on his mind, the location doesn't seem the proper venue for it. In Mitre Square, if we are to believe Lawende's sighting was indeed of Kate, he had to work fast to be out of the square by Harveys look in, or Watkins next pass. No time to get too preoccupied.

The Torso murders were likely of that ilk though. They were done in private. Perhaps over a matter of days, certainly of many hours. We never found the entirety of the remains. They were much younger women than most of the Canonical Group.
Thanks Michael-interesting points.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:36 AM
Harry D Harry D is offline
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You could argue that all serial killings are psychosexually motivated. That's why serial killers almost invariably target the gender they are sexually attracted to.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:44 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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You could argue that all serial killings are psychosexually motivated. That's why serial killers almost invariably target the gender they are sexually attracted to.
Good point Harry-the victims were all female-if there had been male victims then that would obviously point to non sexual motive.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:48 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Harry’s point is I’d suspect possibly the main reason that people don’t go for Tumblety as a suspect.
I know that Mike Hawley would disagree though.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:50 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Harry’s point is I’d suspect possibly the main reason that people don’t go for Tumblety as a suspect.
I know that Mike Hawley would disagree though.
Bingo-that and he dosnt fit ANY witness descriptions and might have even been in Jail during Kellys murder. Out of all the named police suspects, hes last on my list-even behind druitt. Interesting cat though that's for sure.

At one time I actually came up with the theory that he paid chapman to do the deed for him to collect the specimens for him. (he was known for collecting and then the story of the American doctor trying to collect uteri)
but of course would not explain the exteranneous mutilations.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:07 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Bingo-that and he dosnt fit ANY witness descriptions and might have even been in Jail during Kellys murder. Out of all the named police suspects, hes last on my list-even behind druitt. Interesting cat though that's for sure.

At one time I actually came up with the theory that he paid chapman to do the deed for him to collect the specimens for him. (he was known for collecting and then the story of the American doctor trying to collect uteri)
but of course would not explain the exteranneous mutilations.
He’s certainly not high on any list that I might write Abby but he’s certainly interesting. Even if he wasn’t a Ripper suspect he’d still be worth a book. I wouldn’t be inclined to go for a beer with him, then again it might have been an interesting experience. And I’ve shared a beer with some pretty strange people in my time
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:02 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
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Hi Abby. As with all-things JtR, there's always that one definitive clue or piece missing which might tip the scales definitely to a certain consensus. In the immediate, he doesn't seem to be a killer out for a sexual gain just based on the nonsexual contact with the victims and the amount of time spent with them (well, except for Mary Kelly). Then again, no telling if it was a sexual-off for him or if it served as some twisted psychopathic aphrodisiac; something Jack could play out later in his mind instead of, say, "thinking about baseball". One thing about sex is that, even after the desire is sated, the urge is usually consistent; so, if his murders are sex, it's confusing that the killings would just stop. The frequency (5 or 6 women in three months) is promiscuous by any sexual standards so that, even if Mary Kelly was his ulimate elation, I'd expect that he'd want more. From my conversations, it's generally men recently separated from their wives who run those numbers.

The only comment that I can now pass regarding the leg positioning as suggestive of a non-sexual motive is this: after speaking with Army medics who were around human anatomical dissections, there is the practice of pulling the legs inward (like the Rippers victims) because it relieves the tension on the abdomen. You lay out flat with your legs stretched straight out, you can feel your belly muscles tighten; bend your legs inward and you feel them loosen, which makes the dissections easier. I asked why would you ever bend one leg in, like a figure 4, and the question posed to me was: " was the woman lying next to a wall, where pulling one leg up might be difficult?"
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