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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #1211  
Old 08-14-2018, 11:07 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Hi Abby,

Catching up - slowly - with this thread. You are dead right: boy does he want to get involved when he finally shows up! But what can we take from this?

Would he have thrown caution to the wind in this way, if he was the ripper, intent on killing for as long as possible, undetected and unidentifiable?

Less is more, and if he was guilty I'd have thought he would have avoided saying any more than he absolutely had to, but just enough to give Abberline and co no reason to question his statement, his behaviour or his status as an innocent witness, one who'd be naturally wary in the circumstances in which he claimed to find himself, battling with his conscience but finally coming forward when his conscience won the day.

The fact that he talked to the press has always bothered me. It should be telling us something, but it wasn't the smartest thing to do if he had something enormous to hide and had not yet roused any police suspicions.

But what if he had told his story to a policeman on the Sunday, thinking he was doing his bit for Mary Kelly, but got the feeling he was not being taken seriously, or later believed the constable had not even passed on the details? Could this not have been the reason he went to the police station the following day, miffed that nothing appeared to have been done yet with his information? I mean, he could have cut out the middle man and gone straight to the cop shop over the weekend, but maybe he had assumed that telling a copper on the street and being reassured would suffice?

In these circumstances I could see Hutch talking to the press to make sure his information was not going to be ignored a second time.

Love,

Caz
X
Hi Caz
I would expect that if he got brushed off by the cop on the street he would have gone straight to the station. and with such important info why would he even go to a cop on the street in the first place-would he really expect the cop to do something? A beat cop whos first attention is keeping peace on the streets-one who probably dealing with ripper nuttiness all the time?

anyway-hutchs behavior and story stinks to high heaven of a lying attention seeker. gun to head ive always said more than likely hes a liar and an attention seeker other than the ripper. But being a truthful and accurate witness is last on my list.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #1212  
Old 08-14-2018, 11:20 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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This is a real wild card! Hutchison going to town to make sure what he claimed to have saw is taken seriously by the Police, yet if he was the killer why would he be jumping up and down in the face of the law like a court jester- This is what I saw (yes I'm Jack The Ripper) I know Mary Jane Kelly (I hacked her to pieces). Just perhaps Hutch saw what he saw and that was it. If there was any statement from anyone else to suggest MJK came out of her home after 0.200am, [i]Then[/I I might be looking closely at Hutch, but until something surfaces, I think he's only a witness probably getting 15 minutes of fame.
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  #1213  
Old 08-14-2018, 12:14 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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I think the proximity to the murder site, and probability of actually having seen the exterior of Marys room that night were also relevant Robert. The way they described the "oh-murder" suggests a location of the call inside the courtyard, and we don't have any witnesses who claimed to be in there at that time, so for me anyway, they and Cox are THE most relevant statements here.
Doesn't it concern you that Cox's story could not be verified by any publicans in nearby ale houses. No-one saw a blotchy faced man, with or without a woman like Kelly, buy ale around midnight?
Or is that something we just do not talk about?
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  #1214  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:38 PM
DJA DJA is offline
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If "Blotchy" had arranged to meet Mary Kelly in a pub,he might have had little to drink. Just enough to blend in.
Alcohol flush reaction would not have been immediately apparent.
The small pail of beer might have been for Mary.
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  #1215  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:27 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post

But what if he had told his story to a policeman on the Sunday, thinking he was doing his bit for Mary Kelly, but got the feeling he was not being taken seriously, or later believed the constable had not even passed on the details? Could this not have been the reason he went to the police station the following day, miffed that nothing appeared to have been done yet with his information?
Hi Caz.

This will always be a bone of contention if we ignore the most prevalent theory over that weekend.
The Sunday morning constable could easily have replied to Hutch by saying, " we are told the victim was still alive after 9:00am Friday morning Mr Hutchinson".
And, that was true.

That first weekend the investigation was still in its early stages with no official conclusions available even for the regular constables. The police had no theory, they were only concerned with collecting evidence.
Therefore, it is very likely the beat constables obtained their knowledge from the press, like everybody else.

While it was also true that the Sunday morning press published that the medical team believed Kelly was murdered around 3:00 am. The Sunday morning PC may not have even read the morning papers, not until he gets off his shift.
Plus, the accuracy of medical opinion had suffered badly in the case of Chapman's time of death, so the medical opinion published on Sunday may not have been the game changer some modern theorists would like it to be.

If we ignore the press coverage on that weekend (that Kelly was still alive at 9:00 am Friday morning), we have no obvious reason for G.H. choosing to keep his story to himself for a couple of days.

Many of the questions raised have a reasonable solution if we just put aside our theories and try to understand this murder from the point of view of the locals at the time.
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Last edited by Wickerman : 08-14-2018 at 03:30 PM.
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  #1216  
Old 08-14-2018, 03:55 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
This is a real wild card! Hutchison going to town to make sure what he claimed to have saw is taken seriously by the Police, yet if he was the killer why would he be jumping up and down in the face of the law like a court jester- This is what I saw (yes I'm Jack The Ripper) I know Mary Jane Kelly (I hacked her to pieces).
Yes, these modern theories about G.H acting like a modern serial killer, injecting himself into a murder case, is an attempt to make a witness look like a killer.


Quote:
Just perhaps Hutch saw what he saw and that was it. If there was any statement from anyone else to suggest MJK came out of her home after 0.200am, [i]Then[/I I might be looking closely at Hutch, but until something surfaces, I think he's only a witness probably getting 15 minutes of fame.
I'm sure he did see exactly what he claimed to see, and there are other statements referred to that Kelly was out after she met Blotchy.
The coroner does not select witnesses for amusement, he had to have a good reason to have Maxwell appear at the inquest. This selection likely reflects the dominant belief over that weekend that Kelly was murdered in the late morning.
As the police were faced with this belief in the early stages of the investigation, it is perhaps little wonder they had so few statements of Kelly being out over night. It was of little significance.
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  #1217  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:25 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caz View Post
Hi Abby,

Catching up - slowly - with this thread. You are dead right: boy does he want to get involved when he finally shows up! But what can we take from this?

Would he have thrown caution to the wind in this way, if he was the ripper, intent on killing for as long as possible, undetected and unidentifiable?

Less is more, and if he was guilty I'd have thought he would have avoided saying any more than he absolutely had to, but just enough to give Abberline and co no reason to question his statement, his behaviour or his status as an innocent witness, one who'd be naturally wary in the circumstances in which he claimed to find himself, battling with his conscience but finally coming forward when his conscience won the day.

The fact that he talked to the press has always bothered me. It should be telling us something, but it wasn't the smartest thing to do if he had something enormous to hide and had not yet roused any police suspicions.

But what if he had told his story to a policeman on the Sunday, thinking he was doing his bit for Mary Kelly, but got the feeling he was not being taken seriously, or later believed the constable had not even passed on the details? Could this not have been the reason he went to the police station the following day, miffed that nothing appeared to have been done yet with his information? I mean, he could have cut out the middle man and gone straight to the cop shop over the weekend, but maybe he had assumed that telling a copper on the street and being reassured would suffice?

In these circumstances I could see Hutch talking to the press to make sure his information was not going to be ignored a second time.


Love,

Caz
X
Based on numerous reports from newspapers of witnesses forwarding "suspects" and the suspect is then investigated or brought to the station and it turned out he was just drunk or his alibi/story was satisfactory and then suspect is/was released,I do not think Hutch will just be ignored.They were serious.They wanted to find the killer.
Did he tell the PC the whole story or just "i have some info" and then left his contact info? And where/who was the PC? They could check the route and find out who was on duty.The whole " I told a PC story" sound bogus.

----
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Last edited by Varqm : 08-14-2018 at 05:28 PM.
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  #1218  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:39 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Just like his story of seeing a PC walked down Commercial St. side of Dorset st. and a lodger going into one of the lodging houses it was easy to say "I saw a woman passed across the street,she went inside the court". The court was his main focus after all.Hutch story was bogus,it was another day to put it mildly.
Most possibly the police was desperate and did not want to be empty-handed again,they were hoping. Its also important Dew made his "Hutch was mistaken" comment after the case was closed in 1892,when the dust has cleared.

----
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Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
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  #1219  
Old 08-15-2018, 03:33 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Doesn't it concern you that Cox's story could not be verified by any publicans in nearby ale houses. No-one saw a blotchy faced man, with or without a woman like Kelly, buy ale around midnight?
Or is that something we just do not talk about?
I wouldn't say it concerns me Jon, but I will acknowledge that I put the emphasis on witnesses that have secondary corroboration to some extent. I also wouldn't assume that the tankard that he is carrying was obtained with Mary Kelly, he could have met up with her as she was coming home. He might have escorted her home from the bar as well, but maybe he just showed up, coincidentally perhaps, when she was ready to leave. Interesting that non-one later claimed to have bought Mary drinks that night, yet it seems that she did drink...and plenty.
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  #1220  
Old 08-15-2018, 03:41 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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I have just had another look at Hutchinson's (and Lewis) Testimony. For Hutch to have seen MJK at 2.00am, she must have ventured out about 1.35- 1.40am.
Yes we know it was a cold wet morning, raining on and off. So what is bugging me is why Mary asked Hutchison for only Sixpence? She obviously didn't solicit herself to him as she did not say "Want the Business", so I am speculating that Mary did know Hutch to ask him for a borrow when she was short (as he said in his witness statement to police) Mary was in rent arrears, but to go out on that cold night for pennies, which she could have earned previously from Blotchy and she also had clothing in her room, which she could have pawned in the morning to make up some of the rent arrears or to buy something else seems to be very odd. If she's in a hurry to get the money, Mary isn't going to waste time to solicit any Joe Bloggs in the street, he's going to have to be someone worthwhile, so here comes a wealthy looking man. How convenient such a man came along and at precisely that time in the morning. You couldn't make it up, or could you?
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