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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Torso Killings

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  #151  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:23 PM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
It must have been a pain in the ass getting that torso in there rocky. He did it for a reason.
the reason most likely being that he was familiar with the vault and felt that was a good place to put it? Because of the proximity of the building to the embankment I dont think it was a message to scotland yard
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  #152  
Old 07-22-2018, 09:31 PM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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the reason most likely being that he was familiar with the vault and felt that was a good place to put it? Because of the proximity of the building to the embankment I dont think it was a message to scotland yard
Hi Rocky,

Daily Telegraph Oct 3, 1888:

"When there, instead of throwing the body into the large open well dug to supply water, or secreting it beneath some of the countless heaps of soil and rubbish lying about, he conveyed it, almost fifty yards, through a network of partly underground passages to a remote corner of the building."

Of all the places in the vault, the torso and leg ended up within feet of each other in the same vault the workers used to store their tools. I’m not too sure the body was conveyed there from the outside. Perhaps the murder and dismemberment started and ended in that basement.

With Jackson and Rainham the majority of the parts were located. Pinchin and Whitehall, a total of 3 legs and an arm were never found other than the heads of the victims. The river was just outside the hoarding at Whitehall. An easy dump it seems.
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  #153  
Old 07-23-2018, 02:36 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Hi Rocky,

Daily Telegraph Oct 3, 1888:

"When there, instead of throwing the body into the large open well dug to supply water, or secreting it beneath some of the countless heaps of soil and rubbish lying about, he conveyed it, almost fifty yards, through a network of partly underground passages to a remote corner of the building."

Of all the places in the vault, the torso and leg ended up within feet of each other in the same vault the workers used to store their tools. I’m not too sure the body was conveyed there from the outside. Perhaps the murder and dismemberment started and ended in that basement.

With Jackson and Rainham the majority of the parts were located. Pinchin and Whitehall, a total of 3 legs and an arm were never found other than the heads of the victims. The river was just outside the hoarding at Whitehall. An easy dump it seems.
dear jer, i know we've discussed it at length but if the torso was brought into the vault how do you think the killer got it in there? I think its likely the torso was brought into the vault because it was packaged up, tied in string and wrapped in an old coat. However it may have been prepared that way to be taken out of the vault and dumped somewhere else. I also think it's possible the vault could have been a temporary storage rental. But if the victim was chopped up in the vault, how did the killer get her inside?
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  #154  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:05 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Hi jer and rocky
I dont see a live victim going with the killer into the vault. And as rocky siad, she seemed to be packaged up.

The killer took the torso in there and deposited it.

I dont think it was some kind of direct message TO the police.

I think he had a specific reason in his own mind. Corrupting the location, an insult about the police, something along those lines.

If anyone else has any ideas why torso man left,dumped etc the torsos/parts the way he did would love to hear your thoughts.

The river
Along side the river
Pinchin street
The police vault
Shelly estate

Something going on here and its not just ramdon dumping to get rid of thats for sure.
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #155  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:13 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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If anyone else has any ideas why torso man left,dumped etc the torsos/parts the way he did would love to hear your thoughts.
I think to hinder identification. Disperse the body parts so it's harder to put them together. It worked in most cases, except Liz Jackson and I believe that's because she was traced through the LE Fisher initials in her underwear?
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  #156  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:33 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I think to hinder identification. Disperse the body parts so it's harder to put them together. It worked in most cases, except Liz Jackson and I believe that's because she was traced through the LE Fisher initials in her underwear?
Hi rocky
I think that may only be part of it.

Why not just throw them all in the river? Bury them, burn them whatever.

Weve got parts of jackson in the river.
Her Torso on the bank.

Parts on the shelley estate.

A torso taken with extreme risk, and considerable effort into the vault. A place where workers frequented and knew probably would be found.

Pinchin street.

The parts in the river were found, no overt attempt to sink. Het kept throwing them in as is.

Something else is going on imho. Some weird reason to the killer.
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #157  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:53 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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Hi jer and rocky
I dont see a live victim going with the killer into the vault. And as rocky siad, she seemed to be packaged up.
The torso itself was packaged up in clothing. Presumably the victims own clothing. The leg was buried and not parceled. The arm had a string attached but bare otherwise.
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  #158  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:05 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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The torso itself was packaged up in clothing. Presumably the victims own clothing. The leg was buried and not parceled. The arm had a string attached but bare otherwise.
thank you jer. I just don't see a live victim going in there with him
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"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #159  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:16 AM
jerryd jerryd is offline
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thank you jer. I just don't see a live victim going in there with him
I can appreciate that,Abby

My point is, if he had a pre-arranged “bolthole” (warehouse, house, etc), why would he not be prepared with the proper packaging equipment to parcel the parts? He seemed to use what was available.
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  #160  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:20 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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I can appreciate that,Abby

My point is, if he had a pre-arranged “bolthole” (warehouse, house, etc), why would he not be prepared with the proper packaging equipment to parcel the parts? He seemed to use what was available.
maybe that was part of the fantasy
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"Is all that we see or seem
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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