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  #1  
Old 02-17-2016, 02:11 PM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Default The mysterious Mrs Kennedy...

The star 10th November
...'she states that about three o'clock on Friday morning she entered Dorset Street on the way to her parents house,which is situated immediately opposite that in which the murder was committed. She noticed three persons at the corner of the street near the Britannia public house. There was a man,a young man,respectably dressed, and with a dark moustache talking to a woman whom she did not know, and also a female poorly clad, and without any headgear. The man and woman appeared to be the worse for liquor, and she heard the man ask, "Are you coming" whereupon the woman who appeared to be obstinate, turned in an opposite direction to which the man apparently wished her to go'....

She then goes on to mention the cry of oh murder and the report of the man in Bethnal Green Road the previous day.
Because of this many people have presumed her and Sarah Lewis were one and the same.
The newspaper mentioned that she'd made a statement.
If she was indeed Sarah Lewis then how was miss Lewis allowed anywhere near the inquest as she must have been the most unreliable witness of all time...
Every time I read the above quote from the star I just hear the truth, it does not come across as a lie in any way, it's far too natural for me, especially the part about wanting to go off in a different direction and the lack of headgear.
If Kennedy was Lewis how on earth did after 3 become 2.30, I know this by the church clock??
If Kennedy was Lewis then how did the story change from 2 women and a man to one woman and a man, before the crossing out,to just a man....
For me, if Kennedy and Lewis were one and the same then the Kennedy newspaper report appears far more likely to be the truth. If they were not the same person then she was almost certainly the last witness before the murder
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Old 02-17-2016, 07:58 PM
Rosella Rosella is offline
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The late and much lamented Chris Scott wrote an interesting article on Sarah Lewis in Ripperologist Magazine 133, packers, which may interest you (if you haven't read it already of course!) Chris noted that Sarah was five months pregnant when she testified at the Inquest.

Debra Arif provided the link. Thank you Debra!

http://www.ripperologist.biz/pdf/ripperologist133.pdf

Lewis seems to have been linked with the Keylers/ Gallagher family at Millers Court in some way. The Gallaghers (according to the Evening News of 10/11/88) were an Irish family who lived opposite Mary Kelly's room and had a married daughter, Mrs Kennedy, who had visited them on the night of the murder.
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Old 02-18-2016, 03:29 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
The late and much lamented Chris Scott wrote an interesting article on Sarah Lewis in Ripperologist Magazine 133, packers, which may interest you (if you haven't read it already of course!) Chris noted that Sarah was five months pregnant when she testified at the Inquest.

Debra Arif provided the link. Thank you Debra!

http://www.ripperologist.biz/pdf/ripperologist133.pdf

Lewis seems to have been linked with the Keylers/ Gallagher family at Millers Court in some way. The Gallaghers (according to the Evening News of 10/11/88) were an Irish family who lived opposite Mary Kelly's room and had a married daughter, Mrs Kennedy, who had visited them on the night of the murder.
Thanks Rosella.
Have read it before but it doesn't help with Kennedy.
The evening news piece was interesting with the Gallaghers but then again the same piece mentioned a suspect description by McCarthy where we know he didn't see anyone.
The problem is the time and sighting mentioned by Kennedy from entering Dorset Street to arriving at Millers Court is completely different to Lewis... There are no similarities at all.
If they were the same person then why should the story change so dramatically? It couldn't really.
Either they are different people and maybe we've never seen a Kennedy statement or Sarah Lewis story found itself altered completely at the time of giving the statement...
The assertion that 'Hutchinson was not talking to anyone' at the inquest is odd in itself.... No real reason to even mention it. One of those overstating moments possibly
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:55 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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From what I understand, a witness receives a summons to appear in court. Only the witness knows they have been summoned. There is no public listing of witnesses, for obvious reason's.

So this report suggests Mrs Kennedy received a summons to appear, the reporter cannot learn this from anyone else.


Daily Telegraph, 12 Nov. 1888.
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Old 07-22-2018, 06:07 PM
Simon Wood Simon Wood is offline
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Was Mrs. Kennedy five months pregnant at the time?

Last edited by Simon Wood : 07-22-2018 at 06:13 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:28 PM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Simon, she had a beer belly from Ringers, which sort of counts.

Anyway, from what I read in your thesis, had she gone into expected labor, there was plenty of help in Millers Court that particular morning.

You see, I do read.
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Old 08-08-2018, 04:54 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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" I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by Spitalfields' Church clock. When I went into the court, opposite the lodging-house I saw a man with a wideawake. There was no one talking to him. He was a stout-looking man, and not very tall. The hat was black. I did not take any notice of his clothes. The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one."

Sarah Lewis associated herself with the Keylers, and she is called to testify under that same name. There is no Ms Kennedy that testifies. The discrepancies in their accounts are easily understandable considering the scramble for the latest by the press.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:57 AM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosella View Post
The late and much lamented Chris Scott wrote an interesting article on Sarah Lewis in Ripperologist Magazine 133, packers, which may interest you (if you haven't read it already of course!) Chris noted that Sarah was five months pregnant when she testified at the Inquest.
I just feel I should mention here that Chris's article was a proposed ID of the witness who appeared at MJK's inquest, Sarah Lewis, based on information given to him by the descendants of a woman named Sarah Lewis.

Chris could not link this particular woman to Great Pearl St., Spitalfields or Whitechapel and the family idea that their ancestor was pregnant at the time seems to be a detail added to the family story, apparently to tie in with a child supposedly born in Whitechapel in 1888 in the 1891 census.

Chris mistakenly picked up the details of a child born to another Lewis family in 88 and suggested Sarah would have been five months pregnant at the time of the inquest based on that birth entry belonging to a different family .

The child on the 1891 census was in fact born on 8th August 1888, exactly 130 years ago today, in Mile End. So, rather than being pregnant, this Sarah Lewis actually had a 3 month old baby to care for. The descendants 'well known family story' that their ancestor was 5 months pregnant when she attended the inquest is incorrect.
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:09 PM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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Thanks for the above. Does anyone know if Chris Scott's essay on Mrs. Kennedy ever appeared? He refers to it at the end of the article, but I don't recall seeing it. Then again, my memory isn't so hot.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:10 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
Thanks for the above. Does anyone know if Chris Scott's essay on Mrs. Kennedy ever appeared? He refers to it at the end of the article, but I don't recall seeing it. Then again, my memory isn't so hot.
Hi RJ
Chris didn't get anything published about Mrs Kennedy. We exchanged emails on the subject at the time his Lewis article was published in Ripperologist but Chris didn't disclose to me what he was intending to write about Kennedy. He seemed to be in the early research stages. I think he may have just felt that because he had written an article about Lewis he needed at some point to address the issue of whether or not Lewis and Kennedy were the same woman but hadn't any firm ideas at that time.
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