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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #501  
Old 07-21-2018, 01:05 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
The facts we have suggest that the identification was unsound .Can you see the eyes on the photo ?
Barnett wasn't going by the photo, but would have performed the identification at the mortuary after Kelly had been cleaned, and possibly stitched up. As Bond doesn't state that the eyes were in any way damaged apart from the eyebrows, which had only been partially removed, then it's very likely that their shape, and certainly colour, would still have been recognisable. As has already been noted, Kelly's hair was one of her most striking features, so this would have been another obvious means by which Barnett could positively identify her.

There were other parts or aspects of her body which were more-or-less intact as well, including her hands, feet and frame, all of which would have been enough in themselves to confirm her identity to a lover. Her breasts, whilst detached, had been removed more-or-less cleanly by circular incisions, and these would have been recognisable too, should the need have arisen to use them as a point of identification.

These factors, coupled with the fact that the body was certainly found in Kelly's bed, would have made it pretty obvious that the victim was the woman known to Barnett as Mary Jane Kelly, and thus the identification was anything but unsound.
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  #502  
Old 07-21-2018, 02:31 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Barnett wasn't going by the photo, but would have performed the identification at the mortuary after Kelly had been cleaned, and possibly stitched up. As Bond doesn't state that the eyes were in any way damaged apart from the eyebrows, which had only been partially removed, then it's very likely that their shape, and certainly colour, would still have been recognisable. As has already been noted, Kelly's hair was one of her most striking features, so this would have been another obvious means by which Barnett could positively identify her.

There were other parts or aspects of her body which were more-or-less intact as well, including her hands, feet and frame, all of which would have been enough in themselves to confirm her identity to a lover. Her breasts, whilst detached, had been removed more-or-less cleanly by circular incisions, and these would have been recognisable too, should the need have arisen to use them as a point of identification.

These factors, coupled with the fact that the body was certainly found in Kelly's bed, would have made it pretty obvious that the victim was the woman known to Barnett as Mary Jane Kelly, and thus the identification was anything but unsound.
So much supposition there it's difficult to know where to begin 😀

There is no evidence to suggest that Barnett visited the mortuary at all other than a suggestion in the times where the reporter wasn't actually quoting .

Barnett said
I have seen the body, and I identify it by the ear and eyes, which are all that I can recognise; but I am positive it is the same woman I knew. I lived with her in No. 13 room, at Miller's-court for eight months. I separated from her on Oct. 30.

This is repeated time and again
Telegraph , star , evening news and so on.... "I have seen the body" ....not a mortuary in sight
And why would he , as he told the Star on the 10th

He himself had been taken by the police down to Dorset-street, and had been kept there for two hours and a half. He saw the body by peeping through the window.

So the only evidence from Barnett was eyes and ear and that there was nothing else he could recognise , not hands , toe nails (including varnish) ,ankles or anything else anybody wants to suppose despite the fact that he said he couldn't recognise anything else

The ONLY evidence of anybody visiting the mortuary other than doctors is the jury and the reporter from the Pall Mall Gazette .... nobody else .
Nobody that knew her and nobody that could possibly have known her ..... including ,unbelievably , Caroline Maxwell

As for detatched breasts being identifiable , it's too ridiculous a notion to contemplate
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  #503  
Old 07-21-2018, 02:47 AM
harry harry is offline
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Not aman,but supposedly a Victorian style of dress.
Just thought if anyone wanted to do a memory test,invite someone to study the photo for about half a minute,close the photo,wait about fifteen minutes,then ask that someone how much they remember of the detail.
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  #504  
Old 07-21-2018, 03:06 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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The ONLY evidence of anybody visiting the mortuary other than doctors is the jury and the reporter from the Pall Mall Gazette .... nobody else .
Nobody that knew her and nobody that could possibly have known her ..... including ,unbelievably , Caroline Maxwell
"I went down to the Shoreditch mortuary today and recognised the body as being that of the woman Kelly, whom I saw at two o'clock on Friday morning"

Hutchinson's press statement.
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  #505  
Old 07-21-2018, 03:20 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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"I went down to the Shoreditch mortuary today and recognised the body as being that of the woman Kelly, whom I saw at two o'clock on Friday morning"

Hutchinson's press statement.
I'm not including anyone who's existence is actually unproven Joshua
Had Mrs Kennedy said it would you have mentioned it ?
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  #506  
Old 07-21-2018, 04:08 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
I'm not including anyone who's existence is actually unproven Joshua
Had Mrs Kennedy said it would you have mentioned it ?
Of course. Just because you personally refuse to accept it doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist.
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  #507  
Old 07-21-2018, 04:34 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Of course. Just because you personally refuse to accept it doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist.
It was a statement by the press association
Same as the Kennedy one and the Elizabeth Foster one ....... doesn't class as evidence 😉
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  #508  
Old 07-21-2018, 04:44 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
It was a statement by the press association
Same as the Kennedy one and the Elizabeth Foster one ....... doesn't class as evidence 😉
A statement to the police signed by the police doesn't seem to be evidence to you either.
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  #509  
Old 07-21-2018, 05:58 AM
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A statement to the police signed by the police doesn't seem to be evidence to you either.
With three completely different Hutchinson signatures on it ....
Too right I have issues with it
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  #510  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:02 AM
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It's clear that whoever signed the individual sheets of the statement was not in the habit of signing the name 'George Hutchinson' although he was clearly well educated and comfortable with a pen
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