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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #461  
Old 07-19-2018, 08:10 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post

The reality is that Hutchinson is increasingly considered a highly dubious witness, if not a viable person of interest.
I might get the sequence wrong here but if Hinton's theory was satisfactory, there would have been a Wroe theory. And, if the Hinton/Wroe theories were satisfactory, you wouldn't have watered them down to Hutch being nothing more than a time-waster.
It's not like you are all on the same team. You all can't agree with each other, so why should anyone believe either of you?

How many varieties of the Royal Conspiracy theory have there been?
How is the case against Hutchinson any different?

Hutchinson is not a dubious witness. Ill conceived accusations by modern theorists have tried to make him look dubious.
That's the truth of it.
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  #462  
Old 07-19-2018, 09:29 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Here's how unreliable that supposed "cry of murder" was when estimating a time of death.

"Some residents in the court declare that about a quarter to two (1:45) they heard a faint cry of murder".

Daily Telegraph, 10 Nov.

"One woman who lives in the court stated that at about two o'clock she heard a cry of murder".
Star, 10 Nov.

"....a woman residing at 26 Dorset Street, a house the back rooms of which abut upon the court according to which a cry of murder was heard at three o'clock".
Daily Telegraph, 10 Nov.

"Between half past three and four o'clock in the morning Mrs. Kennedy, who passed a very restless night, heard a cry of "Murder" that seemed to come from the opposite side of the court,..."
Evening News, 10 Nov.

The Star had observed, quite correctly, that:
"This story soon became popular, until at least half a dozen women were retelling it as their own personal experience. Each story contradicted the others with respect to the time at which the cry was heard."
Star 10 Nov.

Clearly then, anyone at the time believing the cry of murder was an indication of Kelly's time of death will be wholly confused with regard to what to believe.
Unless of course there were several cries of murder, all for various reasons.
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Last edited by Wickerman : 07-19-2018 at 09:37 PM.
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  #463  
Old 07-19-2018, 09:55 PM
RedBundy13 RedBundy13 is offline
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Is it really so crazy a theory that hutch as the ripper, knows mary,even casually as someone who lives in the immediate area and knows prostitutes, maybe even has heard she is recently single (hes staying a stones throw away in the victoria house) and is keeping an eye out for her. maybe goes by her place? shes occupied, so he waits a while. leaves, comes back to find her guest is gone-you know the rest.
Exactly! Plus, the 1891 census has Joseph Barnett's brother living at...... the Victorian Home. Does that automatically mean he lived there in '88'? Obviously not, but its definitely a piece of circumstantial evidence if he was living there in Oct./Nov. of 1888 pointing towards Hutch.
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  #464  
Old 07-19-2018, 10:42 PM
RedBundy13 RedBundy13 is offline
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I just cant get over the idea of hutch, after getting snubbed by Mary, lurking outside her place in the middle of the night near possible time of death.


and apparently so obsessed by her, that even his body language, as if waiting, watching for someone up the court was even so obvious to a passerby.


I mean dosnt that strike you? made the hair stand up the moment i heard of it.
I completely agree! Every once in a while that feeling pops up in me too, where it all just seems to click. And everything starts to make a little more sense than it did the day before.
Would I bet my life on Hutch being JTR? Absolutely not.
Would I bet my house? No.
Would I bet my car? Maybe not...
But would I bet $1,000? YES!
For me, he's the closest suspect yet. His whole police statement is just SOO difficult to buy. I mean seriously, his eyelashes?? Are you kidding me?!?! Too bad they didn't know then what we know now about how some suspects LOVE to put themselves into the investigation looking into their own crimes...
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  #465  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:22 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Hutchinson is not a dubious witness. Ill conceived accusations by modern theorists have tried to make him look dubious.
That's the truth of it.
Not in my case, Jon. I find Hutchinson dubious, but I'm neither a Wroe-ist nor a Hintonist.
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  #466  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:49 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is online now
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Hutchinson is not a dubious witness. Ill conceived accusations by modern theorists have tried to make him look dubious.
That's the truth of it.
But the content of his statement is dubious

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
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  #467  
Old 07-20-2018, 01:45 AM
harry harry is offline
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Jon
Aberline's opinion leaves room for doubt,as does all opinions.Had he said I am convinced of the man's innocence,that would imply a more greater consideration of guilt based on corrorberatian of some kind,,and had he said I am convinced of the man's innocence because his story has been checked and found to be true in all repects,that would have been convincing,but of course he stopped at opinion only. 1 out of 3 for you,not a convincing score.


Surely we have more information to work on than was available on the evening of the 12th when Aberline interviewed Hutchinson.What of all the newspaper articles that you keep referring to?


Then there is the use by Aberline of the word interrogation,but i'll leave that for another time.
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  #468  
Old 07-20-2018, 02:06 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is online now
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Jon
Aberline's opinion leaves room for doubt,as does all opinions.Had he said I am convinced of the man's innocence,that would imply a more greater consideration of guilt based on corrorberatian of some kind,,and had he said I am convinced of the man's innocence because his story has been checked and found to be true in all repects,that would have been convincing,but of course he stopped at opinion only. 1 out of 3 for you,not a convincing score.


Surely we have more information to work on than was available on the evening of the 12th when Aberline interviewed Hutchinson.What of all the newspaper articles that you keep referring to?


Then there is the use by Aberline of the word interrogation,but i'll leave that for another time.
Whether or not the police believed Hutchinson at the time or not is irrelevant, they had to believe him. They could not disprove anything he was saying with regards to what he allegedly saw, and to publicly call him a liar would have done them no favors with the press, or the public, who by this time had lost confidence in the police and their ability to catch the killer.

However what they believed off the record is another matter.

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  #469  
Old 07-20-2018, 03:45 AM
Busy Beaver Busy Beaver is offline
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Really good discussion/debate regarding Hutchison here folks.
Can anyone put a good photo of Mr H on the boards please. I'm still a stickler for accurate descriptions of potential suspects.

If Mary was so hard to identify after her death- Barnett could only id her by her hair and what was left of her eyes. Was Walter Dew brought in to have a look too? He claimed to know her by sight, so surly he would have given a positive Id. I'm asking this because so many people claim to know Mary, and saw her before and after she was supposed to be dead but no-one is 100% positive.
Is there a chance that Mary really did survive and that the person who died was indeed a friend she allowed to use the room? It's been said many times before Hutch gave us a million and one things about his rich Jewish man, but could only tell us that Mary asked to borrow sixpence. He did not give a description of Mary- what she was wearing, how she sounded. So I wonder, if Hutch really knew Mary as well as he claimed he did. She could have been any woman walking down the street asking passers by for money. I think Hutch only came forward to clear himself from the fact that it was him loitering over the road from Dorset Street and the rest is made up folly.
Not forgetting if the Ripper was caught, the whole of the British Isles would be heading for London on the day of the hanging. Don't think Hutch really wanted to be implicated in that even for an extra bit of fame.
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  #470  
Old 07-20-2018, 06:00 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Originally Posted by Busy Beaver View Post
Really good discussion/debate regarding Hutchison here folks.
Can anyone put a good photo of Mr H on the boards please. I'm still a stickler for accurate descriptions of potential suspects.

If Mary was so hard to identify after her death- Barnett could only id her by her hair and what was left of her eyes. Was Walter Dew brought in to have a look too? He claimed to know her by sight, so surly he would have given a positive Id. I'm asking this because so many people claim to know Mary, and saw her before and after she was supposed to be dead but no-one is 100% positive.
Is there a chance that Mary really did survive and that the person who died was indeed a friend she allowed to use the room? It's been said many times before Hutch gave us a million and one things about his rich Jewish man, but could only tell us that Mary asked to borrow sixpence. He did not give a description of Mary- what she was wearing, how she sounded. So I wonder, if Hutch really knew Mary as well as he claimed he did. She could have been any woman walking down the street asking passers by for money. I think Hutch only came forward to clear himself from the fact that it was him loitering over the road from Dorset Street and the rest is made up folly.
Not forgetting if the Ripper was caught, the whole of the British Isles would be heading for London on the day of the hanging. Don't think Hutch really wanted to be implicated in that even for an extra bit of fame.
There are no photos of Hutchinson as his existence is as much of a mystery as Mary Kelly .He's never been successfully identified and all three of his signatures on the statement sheets are different , also bear no resemblence to signatures found of other George Hutchinson's found on census details in later years .

The body was supposedly identified by 'eyes and ear' (single) which is interesting as according to the Bond report both ears were 'partially severed' leaving us to question was she supposely identified by a part of ear still attached to the body or not .
The idea that it was hair is nothing more than ripperology trying to find explanation for the impossible , there was no ambiguity at the time .... it was 'ear' not 'hair'
The identification was farcical
It was identification by location and if there was a body that was identifiable you have to ask why Maxwell wasn't asked to confirm that she was the person seen by her 😉
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