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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Non-Canonical Victims > Torso Killings

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  #81  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:11 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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That's just one example each of time and location, when ALL the other times and locations differed. Plus, it should be borne in mind that the only torso victim left in the East End was deposited in part of the East End where the most contentious of the canonical Ripper victims was slain.But she's not in the least bit "jointed", and all her abdominal (and two thoracic organs) were entirely removed. Nothing remotely like that happened to the majority of the torso victims and, of the one or two whose organs were removed, the evisceration was trivial compared to Kelly, or even Eddowes and Chapman for that matter.
Yes one example of them both in the East End, and one example of them both killing sex workers. Extremely significant nonetheless as both serial killers killed sex workers and show activity in the East End. Whether all the other torso victims are sex workers is unknown since they are unidentified. Maybe Kelly wasn't jointed, but I find it interesting how the ripper nearly decapitated his victims and I do wonder if that could have been attempted. Couldn't disagree with you more about the triviality of the evisceration. Look at all the organs removed from Jackson and how they were packaged up. interesting in light of how the Ripper may have packaged up the half kidney and sent it in the mail. And he mutilated the abdomen of the Pinchin torso. Same killer? No way! I'm not even going to entertain that possibility for a 100 years.

Phillips on the Pinchin Torso: I believe the mutilation to have been subsequent to death, that the mutilations were effected by some one accustomed to cut up animals or to see them cut up, and that the incisions were effected by a strong knife 8in. or more long.
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  #82  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:23 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Couldn't disagree with you more about the triviality of the evisceration. Look at all the organs removed from Jackson
Doesn't begin to compare with Kelly, sorry, and what about the other torso victims who didn't have organs removed? Heck, one of them (Pinchin) didn't even have her arms removed, so there isn't even any consistency within the torso series.

As to sex workers, we don't know about any other torso victim apart from Jackson, but even if they were all prostitutes it means very little. Prostitutes were, and still are, easy targets for murderers.
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  #83  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:31 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Doesn't begin to compare with Kelly, sorry, and what about the other torso victims who didn't have organs removed? Heck, one of them (Pinchin) didn't even have her arms removed, so there isn't even any consistency within the torso series.

As to sex workers, we don't know about any other torso victim apart from Jackson, but even if they were all prostitutes it means very little. Prostitutes were, and still are, easy targets for murderers.
I'm sorry but how is the post mortem mutilation and organ removal of Liz Jackson "uncomparable" to Mary Kelly's mutilations? There are distinct forensic similarities in the mutilations between these two. You just asked me why all the torsos didn't have their organs removed and then went on to explain how much inconsistency there was in the series. As for sex workers, two serial killers who both remove organs operating in London in 1888 and both kill sex workers. What other serial killers, before Jack the ripper killed his victims and before the torso killer killed Liz Jackson, targeted sex workers? Would you mind giving us some serial killers and how many sex workers they killed pre-1888 in London?

Last edited by RockySullivan : 07-19-2018 at 06:34 AM.
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  #84  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:57 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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I can tell that your mind is closed, so I won't waste any more time on the matter.
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  #85  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:38 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
I can tell that your mind is closed, so I won't waste any more time on the matter.
Not only is his mind closed he's also wrong on pretty much all points. Just like Fisherman it's a waste of time reasoning with him.
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  #86  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:39 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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I can tell that your mind is closed, so I won't waste any more time on the matter.
Is that a joke? You are the one who is saying it's not possible while I am the one saying it is and you want to call me close minded? Why don't you address the inconsistencies in your argument rather than project how you feel onto me
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  #87  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:44 AM
RockySullivan RockySullivan is offline
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Sounds like you guys can't find pre-1888 London serial killer who killed sex workers
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  #88  
Old 07-19-2018, 08:24 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is online now
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well said Fish and rocky.
and the only ones whos mind are obviously closed on this are Sam and wheat.

theres so many similarities that one has to consider the possibility they were the same man:

Same geographic location
Same victimology
same time frame
Knife used
unsolved
ruse probably used
post mortem mutilation
Stomch flesh removed in flaps
removal of both external and internal body parts
Throats cut
bodies/parts not overtly hidden
Abdomans targeted



I mean cmon how much more do you want?


of course there are differences but could be explained by killers circs!
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  #89  
Old 07-19-2018, 08:27 AM
John Wheat John Wheat is offline
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Just out of interest where are the Ripper style outdoor murders with necks cut and abdominal mutilations between 1873 and 1887?
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  #90  
Old 07-19-2018, 08:28 AM
ohrocky ohrocky is offline
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My understanding is that the overwhelming majority of the Torso victims were never identified. If we don't know their identity, how can we conclude that they were all sex workers?

Even if all the Torso victims were sex workers, there is nothing at all to rule out two killers attacking sex workers. They were the easiest of targets after all.

The totally different MOs, geographical locations, dismemberment v evisceration etc lead me to believe that the Whitechapel murders and the Torso killings are extremely unlikely to have been committed by the same hand.
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