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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #331  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:05 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by RedBundy13 View Post
I've just finished False Flag and I must say, Stephen has me sold. Out of all the other suspects I'm thinking George Hutchinson should be tops on the list! Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying everything he's selling (I think there might possibly be a few more victims than he lists for one thing and I'm not 100% on The Victorian Home being his sole residence) but overall, he makes some excellent, indisputable points. At least IMO, they're indisputable. That mainly being the Jewish Connection. I just don't see how anyone can look at that kind of evidence and not see that someone (JtR) is trying to point the finger at the Jews. Especially after the Double Event! I mean just count how many times something relating to the Jews comes up;
1: International Working Mens Society, Dutfield's Yard & their Yiddish Language Newspaper 'Arbeter Fraint' also printed from a building in Dutfield's Yard.
2: According to Israel Schwartz, he was called the derogatory name of "Lipski", which of course was a sort of racist term used against the Jews at that time.
3: Mitre Square, where the victim was last seen talking to a man in Church Passage which just so happens to bump up against The Great Synagogue.
4: Goulston Street Graphito written on the wall of The Wentworth Dwellings which were predominantly inhabited by Jews (some estimates as high as 95-100% Jewish).
5: And finally the Graphito itself: "The Juwes are the men..."

I know there is quite a few people who believe that all this evidence points to Jack as BEING Jewish. Really? Do you really think that ANY foreign Jew was able to get within 10' of a prostitute at that time? With that kind of hysteria and media attention going on against the jews? Let alone getting one to come down a dark passage? But I guess who knows? Maybe they were so drunk they couldn't tell if he was Jewish or not?? Maybe...
Hi red
I pretty much agree. But I dont go as far as stephen does with the jewish connection. As in i dont think the ripper strated out trying to implicate jews. I think the geographic stuff was just coincidence. However, from the night of the double event on i do beleive the ripper was trying to throw blame on the jews and that the most likely suspect is hutch.

And aussie hutch that he found. Lordy. If ever there was a photo of hutch and the ripper this is it.
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  #332  
Old 07-17-2018, 04:31 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
I think the geographic stuff was just coincidence
Agreed. Finding a Jewish connection in 1880s Whitechapel and its immediate environs is like shooting gefilte fish in a barrel.
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  #333  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:01 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Agreed. Finding a Jewish connection in 1880s Whitechapel and its immediate environs is like shooting gefilte fish in a barrel.
Lol. Good one sam!
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quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

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  #334  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:05 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Just refreshed my memory on Hutchinson’s evidence and found that I still come to the same opinion that I came to thirty years ago. For me there’s very little that’s believable about him. The time he took to go to the police. The Sherlock Holmes like description of a such a well dressed person in such a dodgy area that no one else saw. The unnatural act of stooping down to stare into his face. The fact that Mary didn’t tell him to p**s off for following her and being so nosey. The ridiculous amount of time waiting to see if they re-emerged.

He just sounds like an attention seeker to me. Quite a sad figure. Just my opinion.
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  #335  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:09 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
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Originally Posted by harry View Post
Jon,in reply to your last post to me.
I a m not mixing anything up.The sequence is not the Item I have been referring to.It all began With Hutchinson arriving at the police station,on 12-11-1888, with a prepared statement,..
Harry.
What do you mean by 'prepared'?


Quote:
A phrase in that statement,a statement signed by Hutchinson ,contains the words,"Can be identified".You claim those words were the invention of the police officer,and not the actual words spoken by Hutchinson.
More than that. I claim that entire paragraph is the product of Badham.
The paragraph detailing the suspect description is separate from the statement. By that I mean it is not part of the statement, it being the result of specific questioning.
The content is obviously Hutchinson's words, but the structure and the phrasing is equally obviously the product of a policeman.
And there are too many examples available to argue otherwise. I already showed you three.

Quote:
You further claim a whole paragraph was so altered.You show no evidence to back that claim.Instead you attempt to back your claim by suggesting such alterations were common practice by police officers,and that departmental guides,in format appearance,assisted police officers to do this.Or words to that effect.
I guess you were not aware that this was the case.
Only goes to show we are never too old to learn.
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  #336  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:34 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBundy13 View Post
I've just finished False Flag and I must say, Stephen has me sold. Out of all the other suspects I'm thinking George Hutchinson should be tops on the list!
But there is no new evidence from what was known in 1888.
(The Aussie GH is not evidence, merely a suspicion). Several authors have had a go at condemning Hutchinson, all trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Every theory has been taken apart piece by piece.
It doesn't matter how many theories are invented, with no new evidence it is all conjecture.


Quote:
I just don't see how anyone can look at that kind of evidence and not see that someone (JtR) is trying to point the finger at the Jews. Especially after the Double Event! I mean just count how many times something relating to the Jews comes up;
1: International Working Mens Society, Dutfield's Yard & their Yiddish Language Newspaper 'Arbeter Fraint' also printed from a building in Dutfield's Yard.
It's only an assumption that Stride was a Ripper victim. Not everyone thinks so. Also, given the number of Jewish businesses in the area this is only to be expected.

Quote:
2: According to Israel Schwartz, he was called the derogatory name of "Lipski", which of course was a sort of racist term used against the Jews at that time.
Jews were victims of prejudice across the East End. Not everyone who hated Jews was the Ripper.

Quote:
3: Mitre Square, where the victim was last seen talking to a man in Church Passage which just so happens to bump up against The Great Synagogue.
This sighting was too late, Lawende never identified the body, and Insp. McWilliams (City Police) was not convinced the female was the victim.
Neither am I. Given the extent of the mutilations the murder was likely already in progress when the three Jews came out of the club after 1:30.

Quote:
4: Goulston Street Graphito written on the wall of The Wentworth Dwellings which were predominantly inhabited by Jews (some estimates as high as 95-100% Jewish).
5: And finally the Graphito itself: "The Juwes are the men..."
Who wrote that graffiti?, this question has never been settled.

Quote:
I know there is quite a few people who believe that all this evidence points to Jack as BEING Jewish.
None of the above is 'evidence', none of it has been proven to be true.
All of it is suspicion, and all of it has been questioned over the years.
Where is the value of writing another book with all the same accusations and conjecture?

Quote:
Really? Do you really think that ANY foreign Jew was able to get within 10' of a prostitute at that time? With that kind of hysteria and media attention going on against the jews? Let alone getting one to come down a dark passage? But I guess who knows? Maybe they were so drunk they couldn't tell if he was Jewish or not?? Maybe...
You might not appreciate how desperate these women were for a few pence.
We know from contemporary statements at the time that these women were prepared to take the risk.
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  #337  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:41 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
Where a witness statement is taken which refers to a description of an offender/suspect who is not known/or known at the time. The term "I would be able/not be able to recognize/identify him again is included in a statement as a matter of course, for obvious reasons.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry View Post
Trevor,
But we know that in the Hutchinson statement,the words used were,"can be identified".Of course other descriptions would also surfice,but they were not used, and there is no evidence for Wickerman claim,that the whole paragraph was changed by Badham,from what Hutchinson actually said,to one Badham felt was more appropriate.No evidence whatsoever.
The phrase: 'can be identified' obviously comes from Badham, because it would make no sense for Hutch to say 'the man I saw can be identified' when it would be Hutch himself doing the identifying. He'd have said something like: "I'd know the man again", which then allowed Badham to impart the good news that this man 'can be identified [by the witness if seen again]'. That's why it was considered worth while taking Hutch round the streets in the hope that he would see this man, because he could identify him.

It's simple English language, isn't it?

Love,

Caz
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Last edited by caz : 07-17-2018 at 05:44 AM.
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  #338  
Old 07-17-2018, 06:32 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi red
I pretty much agree. But I dont go as far as stephen does with the jewish connection. As in i dont think the ripper strated out trying to implicate jews. I think the geographic stuff was just coincidence. However, from the night of the double event on i do beleive the ripper was trying to throw blame on the jews...
Hi Abby,

I tend to agree, or at least I think it's entirely plausible.

Serial killers will always try to shift the blame onto others for the evil they do themselves, whether it's their overbearing mother, a cheating girlfriend, a prostitute with the clap, or even his latest victim, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time - all of which may translate to a chronic problem with womankind in general. Alternatively it can be a whole group of men, in this case the Jews, who are creating temporary obstacles for him, real or imagined, as he goes round the victim-rich streets of Whitechapel seeking opportunities to vent.

Easy to see how Jack could have slipped naturally into bigotry if not Jewish himself. Anyone not like him, or not seeing the world the way he saw it, could have got in the way and become a target for his own demons. And the Jews, IMHO, were just a convenient presence to be targeted. He might even have deluded himself into thinking the non-Jewish community would be on his side if he took a pop at them, while 'cleaning the streets' of bad women, as the Yorkshire Ripper tried to claim he was doing. Blame shifting again.

I can't, however, see anything in the evidence to suggest Hutch had anything to do with the murders. If he saw a flash, Jewish looking man being picked up by Kelly, that's what he saw. It doesn't automatically make him a liar, a bigot or a suspect for the murders himself. And as Abberline believed him, I'd need some strong evidence that he was full of it.

Love,

Caz
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  #339  
Old 07-17-2018, 06:44 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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What is never satisfactorily explained regarding the whole Hutchinson episode is why ?
If a man called Hutchinson did genuinely call in just after 6 on the 12th then he puts himself in the spotlight for no reason whatsoever and becomes prime suspect through choice .
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  #340  
Old 07-17-2018, 06:48 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
What is never satisfactorily explained regarding the whole Hutchinson episode is why ?
If a man called Hutchinson did genuinely call in just after 6 on the 12th then he puts himself in the spotlight for no reason whatsoever and becomes prime suspect through choice .
No obvious reason? Wherefore your namesake, Matthew Packer, and other would-be witnesses with exaggerated or made-up stories?
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