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  #4941  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:35 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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[quote]#2819
Old 12-24-2008, 02:13 PM
blue moon blue moon is offline
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thank you for your reply, but i would like to correct you in saying that richard was born in march 1962 and the possibility of them having sexual intercourse before the time stated by you at the fun fair is high indeed. carol france was also a trainee hairdresser at the time and was the one who dyed hanratty's hair, thanks for the reply however and i would like to hear from you soon.[quote/]

I dont know if you still look in on this forum blue moon but you contributed some intriguing posts almost a decade ago and it seems clear that you knew the France family quite well. Its a real pity that you didnt contribute any further posts. Just to set the record straight and clear up any lingering suspicions that James Hanratty was the father of Caroles son Richard William Nutzlader, I can definitely state that he was not the father. Richard was born not in March 1962 as you mistakenly thought, but a year later, on March 4th 1963, exactly 11 months after the state murder of Hanratty.
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"Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

Last edited by Sherlock Houses : 07-12-2018 at 02:37 AM.
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  #4942  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:41 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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Quite so Ansonman.

Mrs Margaret Walker was one of these "miracles". A very upstanding and well respected Rhyl citizen she was able to pinpoint the date she encountered a young man outside her home seeking B&B accommodation for 2 nights. Mrs Walker said the man looked very much like James Hanratty, whose photo had been published for the very first time in the Sunday papers of February 18th 1962, the day after the trial ended.
The date of this encounter she was able to establish firmly as Tuesday, August 22nd 1961. The reason for her certainty was that it happened the Tuesday before a very noteworthy family event took place. That family event was the eviction of her son on Friday August 25th.

The following 6 important points are what make Mrs Walker's evidence so powerfully persuasive [unless of course you happen to be a diehard cynic].............

1] The man was about 24-27 years old. Hanratty was 24 at the time.
2] The man asked for accommodation for 2 nights. Hanratty stated that he stayed 2 nights in Rhyl at the relevant time.
3] The man's hair was dark and very eye-catching as it was streaky or tacky in places. This would describe how Hanratty's hair must have looked a couple of weeks after having had it dyed dark by Carole France. The dye would have been in the process of fading and the natural auburn colour beginning to show, hence the noticeable streakiness.
4] The man was not casually dressed, he wore a suit, a dark suit. Hanratty was wearing the dark grey Hepworth suit that week.
5] Mrs Walker's Alsatian dog was at her side by her front gate when the young man approached her. Hanratty's father recalled his son telling him of 'a large dog' accompanying one of the Rhyl women he had asked for accommodation.
6] Mrs Walker stated that this young man was willing to sleep anywhere "on a settee or anything", it didn't bother him where. This tallies perfectly with Hanratty's sleeping arrangements when staying at the Frances or at Louise Anderson's.
Hi me,

In addition to these 6 important points when Mrs Walker met with James Hanratty senior in 1967 her belief that it was James Hanratty who she saw on August 22nd 1961 was reinforced......."The moment I saw him I knew he must be the father of the boy who called. The likeness was UNMISTAKABLE"
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"A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

"Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]

Last edited by Sherlock Houses : 07-12-2018 at 07:44 AM.
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  #4943  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:12 PM
NickB NickB is offline
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thank you for your reply, but i would like to correct you in saying that richard was born in march 1962
I think Blue Moon saw this post ...
https://forum.casebook.org/showpost....&postcount=295
... and thought he would have a little fun by playing around with some of the facts.

Jimarilyn pointed out at the time that Richard could not have been born as early as March 1962, but Blue Moon just responded with the bald statement (as above) that he was.
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  #4944  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:07 PM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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Spitfire,

As you are a man who has a comprehensive knowledge of the A6 Case, I hoped my comments distinguishing between satire and sarcasm might have had a salutary effect.

You latest delusional offerings regarding Cilla Black/White are desperate diversions from a man who has changed sides once, and is determined not to do so again in his dotage. You are starting to sound frightened.

If you have anything to offer on this site, Daily Mail obseravtions excluded, I will be happy to engage wth you. In the interim you might like to start by addressing the numerous points that have been raised regarding conspiracy.
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  #4945  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:29 PM
moste moste is online now
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Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Spitfire,

As you are a man who has a comprehensive knowledge of the A6 Case, I hoped my comments distinguishing between satire and sarcasm might have had a salutary effect.

You latest delusional offerings regarding Cilla Black/White are desperate diversions from a man who has changed sides once, and is determined not to do so again in his dotage. You are starting to sound frightened.

If you have anything to offer on this site, Daily Mail obseravtions excluded, I will be happy to engage wth you. In the interim you might like to start by addressing the numerous points that have been raised regarding conspiracy.
A big fat 'hear! hear! ' from me!

I would just mention though that having studied the geography of the Scotand road, and the Vauxhall area , Cilla Black lived about one hundred yards south along the Scottie Road from Cowleys newsagents . Of the 29 such shops from downtown Liverpool to the fork of Stanley road, Cowleys was right on Cilla's doorstep. Her family would have known David Cowley well as their tobacconist and no doubt Cilla would have been friendly with the pleasant mannered Mrs. Dinwoody, and probably the grandchildren. However, all this I consider a coincidence nothing more.
On the other hand , David Cowley was the owner/ operator of a paper shop in a run down slum area in the docklands of Liverpool . By 1965 he would be the Lord Mayor of the City, and to who, none other than acting chief constable Herbert Balmer Would be answerable to. I find that very interesting, and possibly much less of a coincidence than the Cilla deal.
While we're on Scotland road I have to say, there never was a cinema opposite Cowleys. Hanratty was supposed to have made that mention with regards to his alighting the bus , however there was two picture houses , on Scotland road, the 'Derby' and the 'Gaiety' , which he will have passed enroute, whether one of these fixed itself in his mind prior to him getting of the bus.. who knows?
For my part I still think he was in Cowleys, on that Tuesday afternoon, Mrs. Dinwoody, honest as the day is long, never the less got it wrong. Hanratty refused to name his Liverpool contacts out of pure fear , from reprisal.
You can bet your life ,if Balmer could have scooped up a couple or three Scouse thugs and pinned the A6 murder on them , he would have been as happy as Larry.
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  #4946  
Old 07-13-2018, 02:51 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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While we're on Scotland road I have to say, there never was a cinema opposite Cowleys. Hanratty was supposed to have made that mention with regards to his alighting the bus , however there was two picture houses , on Scotland road, the 'Derby' and the 'Gaiety' , which he will have passed enroute, whether one of these fixed itself in his mind prior to him getting of the bus.. who knows?
For my part I still think he was in Cowleys, on that Tuesday afternoon, Mrs. Dinwoody, honest as the day is long, never the less got it wrong. Hanratty refused to name his Liverpool contacts out of pure fear , from reprisal.
You can bet your life ,if Balmer could have scooped up a couple or three Scouse thugs and pinned the A6 murder on them , he would have been as happy as Larry.
You are quite correct Moste about there being no cinema directly opposite David Cowley's sweet shop. The two cinemas that you mention were located a couple or so hundred yards before you reached the sweet shop (on opposite sides of Scotland Road).
What remains very revealing is that in a statement made to police on December 30th 1961 Hanratty said that the sweet shop.....'was a corner shop by traffic lights and gents toilets and ladies toilets. Mrs Dinwoodie was by the cigarettes in far counter.' This is absolutely spot on. The black painted metal structures are still there, located on the triangular shaped central reservation, but were paved over a number of years ago and obviously not been used as public conveniences since.
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"A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

"Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]
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  #4947  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:30 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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Originally Posted by Sherlock Houses View Post
What remains very revealing is that in a statement made to police on December 30th 1961 Hanratty said that the sweet shop.....'was a corner shop by traffic lights and gents toilets and ladies toilets.'
Hanratty was not giving statements to the police on December 30th 1961. I believe you are referring to a document written by Kleinman, who had visited the scene and seen the traffic lights and toilets, which Hanratty had not mentioned.
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  #4948  
Old 07-13-2018, 04:50 AM
Spitfire Spitfire is offline
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Hanratty was not giving statements to the police on December 30th 1961. I believe you are referring to a document written by Kleinman, who had visited the scene and seen the traffic lights and toilets, which Hanratty had not mentioned.
Correct.

Foot quotes the relevant passage of Hanratty's statement to his lawyers made after his arrest on page 190 of his book (Penguin 1988 edition), the only description of the location is as follows:
"The sweet shop is in the Scotland Road, opposite a picture house."

There is no mention of it being a corner shop, or being opposite public conveniences.
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  #4949  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:55 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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Hanratty was not giving statements to the police on December 30th 1961. I believe you are referring to a document written by Kleinman, who had visited the scene and seen the traffic lights and toilets, which Hanratty had not mentioned.
Quite incorrect actually. Hanratty made lengthy statements to police on December 21st 1961, December 30th 1961 and January 10th 1962.
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"A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

"Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]
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  #4950  
Old 07-13-2018, 05:58 AM
Sherlock Houses Sherlock Houses is offline
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There is no mention of it being a corner shop, or being opposite public conveniences.
Just goes to show how little you know.
__________________
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"A body of men, HOLDING THEMSELVES ACCOUNTABLE TO NOBODY, ought not to be trusted by anybody." --Thomas Paine ["Rights of Man"]

"Justice is an ideal which transcends the expedience of the State, or the sensitivities of Government officials, or private individuals. IT HAS TO BE PURSUED WHATEVER THE COST IN PEACE OF MIND TO THOSE CONCERNED." --'Justice of the Peace' [July 12th 1975]
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