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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Victims > Mary Jane Kelly

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  #201  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:27 PM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Bond gives us a detailed description of (a) the organs extracted and (b) where they were found. The heart appears in category (a) but not in category (b).

As to the "other evidence", it's very thin on the ground.
It far outweighs the tenuous evidence, which you clearly rely on to support the belief that the killer took away the heart.

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  #202  
Old 07-11-2018, 11:39 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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It far outweighs the tenuous evidence, which you clearly rely on to support the belief that the killer took away the heart.

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What's "tenuous" about a detailed medical report produced by a medic who was present at both the crime scene and the autopsy? And, in response to your second assertion, I don't necessarily "believe" that the heart was taken away from 13 Miller's Court.
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  #203  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:28 AM
Jon Guy Jon Guy is online now
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And, in response to your second assertion, I don't necessarily "believe" that the heart was taken away from 13 Miller's Court.
What are your thoughts on the absent heart, Gareth ?
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  #204  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:41 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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What's "tenuous" about a detailed medical report produced by a medic who was present at both the crime scene and the autopsy? And, in response to your second assertion, I don't necessarily "believe" that the heart was taken away from 13 Miller's Court.
Gareth

I dont have a problem with the medical report. What I do have a problem with is how the term "absent from the pericardium" is interpreted

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  #205  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:54 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is online now
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Actually, the report doesn't say "absent from the pericardium" but "the pericardium was open below and the heart absent". That's a subtle, but potentially important, difference.
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  #206  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:00 AM
DJA DJA is offline
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Implies Jack did not just rip the lot out.
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  #207  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:42 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Originally Posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
They most probably were, and the heart was probably in the pail along with other organs and produced at the post mortem. But that doesn't change the terminology used by Bond when listing damage to the body organs during the post mortem, including the pericardium which he states the heart was absent from.

How can an inference be drawn from that ambiguous part of his report suggesting that the heart was missing from the room taken away by the killer, when that is not mentioned, or suggested at all by Bond or any other doctor at the time or in the years that followed? No police officials of any rank, or any other officials suggest the killer took away the heart. In fact we have evidence to suggest that was not the case.

You can argue, hypothesize, or speculate till the cows come home but it is not going to change the facts, the heart was not taken away by the killer.

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The heart was missing when they opened the room, that's the crux of the findings on Friday afternoon. How that occurred is a matter of logic. If no-one had been in the room after 1:30am aside from the killer, and he left the room with the latch off and therefore the door locked, also the windows, and Mary Kelly had her heart when she entered the room, then ONLY the killer could have taken it.
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  #208  
Old 07-12-2018, 04:47 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Actually, the report doesn't say "absent from the pericardium" but "the pericardium was open below and the heart absent". That's a subtle, but potentially important, difference.
Bingo. If they had found the heart in the room it would have been noted.

The killer removed the heart and possibly burned or cooked and ate it there or more than likely took it away when he left.
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  #209  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:47 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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The heart was missing when they opened the room, that's the crux of the findings on Friday afternoon.
You have just made that up !!!!!!!

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  #210  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:01 AM
Trevor Marriott Trevor Marriott is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Bingo. If they had found the heart in the room it would have been noted.

The killer removed the heart and possibly burned or cooked and ate it there or more than likely took it away when he left.
If the heart was found In the pail or accounted for before or at the time of the post mortem there would be no need to mention it missing. But if after describing it missing from the pericardium I would have then expected it to be stated it was missing from the room taken away by the killer but we don’t see evidence of that or at any time thereafter by anyone.

How anyone can say with their hand on their heart that bonds statement is enough to say the killer took away the heart beggars belief

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