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  #1611  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:40 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Hi Joshua,

Do I detect a note of scepticism in your response?

I've never considered Fogarty as the Ripper, but I think he warrants consideration as a possible killer of Tabram. I mean, how many vicious, mentally unstable individuals do we know who married the last person to see a WM victim alive? A person who tried to finger a seemingly innocent man for the crime?


Gary
I recall reading your Fogarty research over on the JTRForum and thinking that you’ve come up with the likeliest killer of Martha Tabram. Have any authors caught onto this Gary? Has Fogarty been mentioned?
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  #1612  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:48 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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I’m assuming that this is hypothetical Gary? Or do we know how he registered his children?

If we don’t know (and I genuinely don’t) maybe he registered them as Cross? My only thinking on this is that maybe he didn’t see registering his children at school as something legally binding?

I accept your point though of course. I don’t have a real answer.
No, they were registered at Betts Street and Essex Street schools (from memory) as Lechmere.
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  #1613  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:04 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Cheers Gary,

Then it seems certain that he used Lechmere every time when it came to anything written officially.

Did his mother revert to Lechmere after Thomas Cross’ death?
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  #1614  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:16 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes;450867i
Cheers Gary,

Then it seems certain that he used Lechmere every time when it came to anything written officially.

Did his mother revert to Lechmere after Thomas Cross’ death?
She remarried a man named Joseph Forsdike and as far as I know used that name until she died.
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  #1615  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:21 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
I recall reading your Fogarty research over on the JTRForum and thinking that you’ve come up with the likeliest killer of Martha Tabram. Have any authors caught onto this Gary? Has Fogarty been mentioned?
Hi Michael,

I drafted a long, waffly response to this and it disappeared.

Probably just as well😉

The short answer is there's been some interest but I'm not aware anything has been put together by anyone.

Gary
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  #1616  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:27 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Did he ever use the name Lechmere when Cross senior was still alive, or the name Cross (other than in a context where he was already using it) after he'd died?
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  #1617  
Old 06-23-2018, 08:58 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Did he ever use the name Lechmere when Cross senior was still alive, or the name Cross (other than in a context where he was already using it) after he'd died?
He and his sister were Christened after his mother (Maria) had married Thomas Cross and the name Lechmere was recorded. Thomas Cross had only been dead a year or so, and Maria hadn't yet remarried, when CAL married using the name Lechmere in 1870.

There are only two examples currently known where he used the name Cross after his stepfather had died. One was during the Nichols case and the other (which we can't be certain was him) was when the child was run over in 1876.

He had been listed as Cross on the 1861 census. In theory, Thomas Cross, as head of the household was responsible for providing that info, but Maria may have had a hand in it. CAL was 11/12, so we can be reasonably confident that the use of Cross wasn't his idea.

Last edited by MrBarnett : 06-23-2018 at 09:09 AM.
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  #1618  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:32 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Hi Michael,

I drafted a long, waffly response to this and it disappeared.

Probably just as well😉

The short answer is there's been some interest but I'm not aware anything has been put together by anyone.

Gary
Cheers Gary,

Fogarty appears to provide a plausible reason for Poll’s reticence when it came to the police and also it might explain her willingness to identify innocent soldiers as Martha’s killer.

If Foggy was only feigning blindness......
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  #1619  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:40 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
She remarried a man named Joseph Forsdike and as far as I know used that name until she died.
Maybe he didn’t like his mother remarrying and so he made a point of calling himself Cross in protest?

The only thing that I feel confident in is that he gained no advantage by calling himself Cross so I see no sinister motive. Nonetheless it’s still interesting to know why he used Cross as we cannot prove that he used it in everyday life (though I’ve always felt it likely.) If we could prove that ‘accident man’ and ‘witness man’ were one and the same then we would have our answer.
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  #1620  
Old 06-23-2018, 09:59 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is online now
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Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
Cheers Gary,

Fogarty appears to provide a plausible reason for Poll’s reticence when it came to the police and also it might explain her willingness to identify innocent soldiers as Martha’s killer.

If Foggy was only feigning blindness......
What I should make clear here is that there is no definitive proof that Poll and Foggy were an item in 1888. But we do know they both frequented NE Passsge and the St Geo E workhouse/infirmary in the 1880s. They were living together in NEP in mid-1893, alongside 2/3 other prostitutes. They married in December that year and within a very short time Poll was back in the infirmary being treated for the clap.

Ed Stow (remember him?) has questioned whether Fogarty was actually blind. His 1906 Hellingly notes state that he was completely blind. How much of a hindrance would that have been on the dark GYB landing, I wonder?
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