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  #121  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:37 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
Apologies if this has been posted before, but I thought this diagram of the layout of Miller's court might be useful in the terms of were the cry of " Oh Murder" might have originated.
There was also an Elizabeth Smith and Annie Govan, who lived in the court.
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  #122  
Old 06-22-2018, 01:46 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
And just to batten down the hatches on that issue... it has been controversial.
Indeed, Jon! I copped a fair bit of criticism for raising the matter back in the day - polite criticism, I hasten to add
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  #123  
Old 06-22-2018, 03:49 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Indeed, Jon! I copped a fair bit of criticism for raising the matter back in the day - polite criticism, I hasten to add
Yeh, you & me both.
I havn't seen Michael Richards around in a while, I know he believed Prater lived over Kelly's room.
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  #124  
Old 06-23-2018, 03:41 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Thanks, Darryl. If it helps, I'd advise that people use the left arrow to locate Prater. Source: Daily Telegraph, which unambiguously has her saying that her room was at the "front" and "above the shed", ie the storage space shown in the diagram.
And yet at the inquest she said she lived in the room above Kelly so it comes down to which you choose to believe .
Keeping in mind that report later states that......

It is supposed that she met the murderer in Commercial-street. The pair would have reached Miller's-court about midnight, but they were not seen to enter the house. The street-door was closed, but the woman had a latchkey. A light was seen shining through the window of the room for some time after the couple must have entered it.

So that relates to the door to the right of the court .
There are mistakes in press reports from time to time .
Best guess is that Prater told it as it was at the inquest .
She lived above Kelly.
She would know the difference between a noise outside and a noise in the room below .
Sarah Lewis said the shout appeared to come from outsude her door ... suggests clearly ' the court' not from a room
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  #125  
Old 06-23-2018, 03:45 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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On a side note with Prater is that she went out at around 5.30 -5.45 for a rum then went back to bed til 11.30 .
No mention of throwing up or feeling unwell , no mention of maxwell, just seems that she fancied a quick drink so she could sleep .
Hopefully that puts the idea to bed that Maxwell confused them
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  #126  
Old 06-23-2018, 05:27 AM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
And yet at the inquest she said she lived in the room above Kelly so it comes down to which you choose to believe .
Keeping in mind that report later states that......
All the rooms upstairs are above Kelly's.
Prater lived over the shed, and you well know the shed was the front room where McCarthy kept his barrows in Dorset St.

Quote:
It is supposed that she met the murderer in Commercial-street. The pair would have reached Miller's-court about midnight, but they were not seen to enter the house. The street-door was closed, but the woman had a latchkey. A light was seen shining through the window of the room for some time after the couple must have entered it.
That is the Blotchy encounter.

Quote:
So that relates to the door to the right of the court .
The street door is the door beside the passage, in Dorset St.
Here, you can see both street doors, on either side of the passage.



Quote:
Sarah Lewis said the shout appeared to come from outsude her door ... suggests clearly ' the court' not from a room
Kelly's room was directly opposite No.2
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  #127  
Old 06-23-2018, 06:30 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
All the rooms upstairs are above Kelly's.
Prater lived over the shed, and you well know the shed was the front room where McCarthy kept his barrows in Dorset St.



That is the Blotchy encounter.



The street door is the door beside the passage, in Dorset St.
Here, you can see both street doors, on either side of the passage.





Kelly's room was directly opposite No.2
Yes
You've just confirmed what I was saying .
The street door (that you suggest Kelly went through with blotchy for some reason ) is on the street lol
Therefore the report is incorrect is it not ?
Yes Kelly's room was opposite the Keylers but i
there is a difference between a sound 'outside the door ' as opposed to in a room opposite

Elizabeth Prater, a married woman, living apart from her husband, said she occupied No. 20 room, Miller's-court, her room being just over that occupied by the deceased. If deceased moved about in her room much witness could hear her. Witness lay down on her bed on Thursday night or Friday morning about 1:30 with her clothes on, and fell asleep directly. She was disturbed during the night by a kitten in the room. That would be about half-past 3 or 4 o'clock. She then distinctly heard in a low tone and in a woman's voice a cry of "Oh! murder." The sound appeared to proceed from the court and near where witness was.
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Last edited by packers stem : 06-23-2018 at 06:38 AM.
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  #128  
Old 06-23-2018, 06:43 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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The above was from the Times of the 13th

The official inquest transcript says
" I lived in THE room OVER where the deceased lived" ....it couldn't be spelled out clearer , really couldn't
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  #129  
Old 06-23-2018, 06:58 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Daily Telegraph 10 Nov
Elizabeth Prater, the occupant of the first floor front room

Star, 10 Nov
Elizabeth Prater, a married woman, who has been deserted by her husband, knew Kelly well, she told a*Star*reporter, "She lived in No. 13 room, and mine is No. 20, which IS ALMOST OVER HERS.
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  #130  
Old 06-23-2018, 07:12 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
Sarah Lewis said the shout appeared to come from outsude her door ... suggests clearly ' the court' not from a room
See post #75 for the lack of consensus on Sarah Lewis' description of where the cry originated.
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