Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Simon Wood 1 hour and 28 minutes ago.
Shades of Whitechapel: The Christie Case - by Sherlock 5 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Batman 6 hours ago.
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - by Wickerman 6 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by Sam Flynn 10 hours ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - by Joshua Rogan 11 hours ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Motive, Method and Madness: Time after Time: Did JtR have a watch? - (10 posts)
Hutchinson, George: Why Didn't the Police Have Schwartz and/or Lawende Take a Look at Hutchinson? - (7 posts)
Torso Killings: JtR failed amputation. Torso killer was successful. - (2 posts)
Shades of Whitechapel: The Christie Case - (1 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > General Suspect Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1581  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:54 PM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanSherlock View Post
I think it is more likely than not that the ripper is someone we never heard of.

If I had to pick a most likely suspect of those we know I'd say M J Druitt or Kosminski.

Excuse my intrusion
So not only do we agree on the Wallace case AS........
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1582  
Old 06-19-2018, 03:57 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
So not only do we agree on the Wallace case AS........
he should change his name to Shmerican Arlock!
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1583  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:03 AM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elamarna View Post
Thanks for the info Gary


Steve
Hi Steve,

I've scoured my Pickfords books but can't find mention of when they stopped operating out of Haydon Square. Annoyingly there is no mention of HS in the index to Traffic and Transport, the more authoritative work on the company, although there are several references to it in the book.

One such says that Pickfords were still renting stables at HS in the 1880s.

Gary
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1584  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:26 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: South london
Posts: 4,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
Hi Steve,

I've scoured my Pickfords books but can't find mention of when they stopped operating out of Haydon Square. Annoyingly there is no mention of HS in the index to Traffic and Transport, the more authoritative work on the company, although there are several references to it in the book.

One such says that Pickfords were still renting stables at HS in the 1880s.

Gary
Thanks Gary


Steve
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1585  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:25 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,839
Default

This must be the only place in Britain we’re you could say “if only we knew someone who has an extensive knowledge of Pickford’s and also the horse slaughtering trade in London “ and get the response “well, now you come to mention it....”
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1586  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:11 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,839
Default

I would be interested in opinions as to how confident a guilty CL might have been entitled to have felt that he hadn’t gotten any of Polly’s blood on him before he made the decision to wait for the ‘footsteps’ to arrive at the scene?
Even on his hands or his cuffs, maybe from the knife?

It was extremely dark. He had very little time due to the approaching footsteps.

Involving someone else (Paul) would have meant that CL would have been fully aware of the serious likelihood that they would end up looking for a police officer or, even if not, the chance of them walking on together as he knew that they were heading in the same direction.

And so CL, completely unaware of whether he has blood on him or not ( but surely suspecting the possibility) has to avoid this evidence being seen by Paul, a police officer, any passerby who (yes with a touch of bad luck) might have passed him near to a street lamp and his co-workers at Pickford’s.

Fish doesn’t appear to accept doubts. His outlook appears to be “if its not categorically impossible it is therefore possible.” That rather obvious statement/viewpoint can be used to ‘dispel’ any doubts, whether its justified or not.

CL lived out a ‘normal’ life and was never caught or even suspected of being Jack The Ripper. We cant imply from these facts that he was some kind of Moriarty-like figure. But can’t we, at least reasonably, suspect that he had at least some sense of self-preservation, cunning even. Also that he wasn’t a completely out of control, kill on the spur of the moment type. Or do we just dismiss this by regarding him as simply incredibly lucky?

I’m just raising a doubt here. A serious one in my opinion. I just can’t see how a cunning murderer who coped with risky situations and avoided being caught, who showed no other kind of ‘brazen’ behaviour, would have taken such a needless, senseless risk. A risk that must have appeared at the time like one that he was unlikely to walk away from.
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1587  
Old 06-21-2018, 07:40 PM
drstrange169 drstrange169 is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 980
Default

>>... do we know that Broad Street Goods Station was either closed or handled less traffic on a Sunday? I know that LNWR men and others were agitating for a standard 6-day week in the late 19th century. And passenger trains certainly ran to and from the station 7 days a week.<<

I'm at work, so I'm going by memory (uh oh), but a Reverend "somebody or other" wrote in the 1870's to the papers complaining that animals were left in rolling stock unattended all day Sundays. As a result the railways changed the practice.


>>And while we on the subject of Broad Street, am I right in saying that Lechmere isn't actually recorded as saying he worked at that location for 20+ years? <<

Correct!


>>At the time he would have started working for Pickfofds they were also operating out of Haydon Square in H Division and very close to Mitre Square. <<


I believe they also had a place in or around Half Moon Passage, close to where Crossmere lived in James Street.
__________________
dustymiller
aka drstrange


"Whenever an expert says something that bolsters the Lechmere theory, it is not my task to disprove him ..."
Fisherman
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1588  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:07 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drstrange169 View Post
>>... do we know that Broad Street Goods Station was either closed or handled less traffic on a Sunday? I know that LNWR men and others were agitating for a standard 6-day week in the late 19th century. And passenger trains certainly ran to and from the station 7 days a week.<<

I'm at work, so I'm going by memory (uh oh), but a Reverend "somebody or other" wrote in the 1870's to the papers complaining that animals were left in rolling stock unattended all day Sundays. As a result the railways changed the practice.


>>And while we on the subject of Broad Street, am I right in saying that Lechmere isn't actually recorded as saying he worked at that location for 20+ years? <<

Correct!


>>At the time he would have started working for Pickfofds they were also operating out of Haydon Square in H Division and very close to Mitre Square. <<


I believe they also had a place in or around Half Moon Passage, close to where Crossmere lived in James Street.
Hi Dusty,

Thanks for the responses.

Of course, they didn't handle livestock at Broad Street. I would imagine that what you are describing happened up in Kings Cross/Maiden Lane where the railways fed the Metropolitan Cattle Market. Sunday wasn't a market day there.

Half Moon Passage was just the other side of Mansell Street from Haydon Square and, as I'm sure you're aware, just below Goulston Street.


Gary
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1589  
Old 06-21-2018, 11:29 PM
MrBarnett MrBarnett is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Romford
Posts: 2,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
This must be the only place in Britain we’re you could say “if only we knew someone who has an extensive knowledge of Pickford’s and also the horse slaughtering trade in London “ and get the response “well, now you come to mention it....”

I confess, I do know a bit about the knacker trade and I have a couple of books on Pickfords. One of them is an in-depth economic history of the company and the other is a picture-book which concentrates on the company's motor fleet.

The makers of the Lechmere documentary consulted the author of one of them

My daughter had some T-shirts embroidered with the HB logo for me last Christmas. I wear them occasionally in the hope that someone will ask me,

'What's Harrison, Barber?'

To which I will reply,

'I presume you are familiar with the 1874 Slaughterhouses &c (Metropolis) Act...?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #1590  
Old 06-22-2018, 03:36 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
Superintendent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: The West Midlands
Posts: 2,839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBarnett View Post
I confess, I do know a bit about the knacker trade and I have a couple of books on Pickfords. One of them is an in-depth economic history of the company and the other is a picture-book which concentrates on the company's motor fleet.

The makers of the Lechmere documentary consulted the author of one of them

My daughter had some T-shirts embroidered with the HB logo for me last Christmas. I wear them occasionally in the hope that someone will ask me,

'What's Harrison, Barber?'

To which I will reply,

'I presume you are familiar with the 1874 Slaughterhouses &c (Metropolis) Act...?
__________________
Regards

Herlock






"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact!"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.