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  #91  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:32 AM
richardnunweek richardnunweek is offline
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Hi
McCarthy was a well respected person in that area, and I would suggest would never openly allow prostitution in his rents, he would turn a blind eye to a degree, but never to fall foul of the law,
As to allowing the game of Pitch and Toss in Millers court, I would say not in a million years.
Regards Richard.
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  #92  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:57 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
Hi
McCarthy was a well respected person in that area, and I would suggest would never openly allow prostitution in his rents, he would turn a blind eye to a degree, but never to fall foul of the law,
As to allowing the game of Pitch and Toss in Millers court, I would say not in a million years.
Regards Richard.
I can't see the reasoning there at all Richard tbh
This seems rather a 'rose tinted spectacle' view of McCarthy .
We really don't know what ha would or wouldn't have turned a blind eye to .
I really can't imagine him caring .It wasn't his job to police the court , just take the rent
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  #93  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:06 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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Thanks Jerry and Jon.

It's still really muddled isn't it? I've seen the reports that have Maurice Lewis giving a description different to that of other who gave one before. Like Nick, I used to be under the impression that when Lewis said he saw MJK with 'Dan' he meant Joseph's brother, and Barnett himself confirming MJK was with his brother the night before she died agreed with that (was that in the Star?) but, Lewis actually thinks Dan was Joseph Barnett, not his brother, so that doesn't explain the mix up at all?

Pitch and toss was an illegal gambling game and accounts often mention that those who played it used look outs. Maybe Lewis and his mates didn't need a look out as it's often reported police didn't venture down Dorset Street and it's courts very often. maybe Lewis was the look out and that's why he noticed the comings and goings.
Debs I suspect the best guess is that the two brothers looked similar but as he knew that Kelly lived with one of them until recently , in terms of him recognising Kelly ,it doesn't effect much .

A second point of note is that Maurice Lewis description of Kelly identical to the description that Maxwell gave of her .... short , stout and dark other than Maxwell elaborated by giving her age as well of around 23
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  #94  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:36 AM
packers stem packers stem is offline
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And still .....
Nobody has asked who 'Julia' was
She was said to have stayed a number of nights with Kelly and according to M Lewis she was seen with Kelly on the Thursday night .
Lewis must surely have been questioned by police over the weekend once his press statements appeared you'd think so did they not look for Julia ?
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  #95  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:40 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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A second point of note is that Maurice Lewis description of Kelly identical to the description that Maxwell gave of her .... short , stout and dark other than Maxwell elaborated by giving her age as well of around 23
The description is probably the biggest problem with Lewis' sighting, for me. It contrasts markedly with Liz Prater's impression of Mary as "tall and pretty, and as fair as a lily". And Maxwell actually described her as "a pleasant little woman, rather stout, fair complexion and rather pale". Not a million miles away, but not dark, so not identical. And the"little" might just be a turn of phrase rather than a physical attribute - Mrs Phoenix said she was 5'7".

Incidentally, Mrs Prater had been separated from her husband for 5 years, the same length of time that Lewis claimed to have known Mary. And Mrs Maxwell said she had known Mary about 4 months, the same length of time I think that Mrs Prater had been living in the court. By her own admission, Prater had been drinking heavily the night before, and got up as soon as the pubs opened to get herself another drink.... .could she have had the horrors of drink upon her?
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  #96  
Old 06-20-2018, 06:19 AM
Darryl Kenyon Darryl Kenyon is offline
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There is an article in a recent edition of Ripperologist by Debra where a sketch of Elizabeth was compared to a sketch of Mary. Obviously, the sketches are no means definitive, and they could be a million miles out from what they really looked like, but it is very interesting none the less. Also, I am sure there is an article somewhere were one the women mentions about wearing each other's clothes for the purpose,I think of confusing the Police.
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  #97  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:35 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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Also, I am sure there is an article somewhere were one the women mentions about wearing each other's clothes for the purpose,I think of confusing the Police.
Not to mention Ripperologists
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  #98  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:44 AM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
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The shout came from the court and seemingly from outside keylers door
Wasn't that where Mary's room was?
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  #99  
Old 06-20-2018, 01:58 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardnunweek View Post
Hi
McCarthy was a well respected person in that area, and I would suggest would never openly allow prostitution in his rents, he would turn a blind eye to a degree, but never to fall foul of the law,
As to allowing the game of Pitch and Toss in Millers court, I would say not in a million years.
Regards Richard.
Hi Richard
I don't think McCarthy bothered to make excuses about the women who tenanted his houses, one paper mentions that "..Mr. McCarthy, the proprietor of this shop, has no hesitation in avowing his knowledge that all his six houses were tenanted by women of a certain class..." but I suppose he could deny that he knew anything went on in the actual homes in the court if need be..
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  #100  
Old 06-20-2018, 02:02 PM
Debra A Debra A is offline
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Originally Posted by packers stem View Post
Debs I suspect the best guess is that the two brothers looked similar but as he knew that Kelly lived with one of them until recently , in terms of him recognising Kelly ,it doesn't effect much .

A second point of note is that Maurice Lewis description of Kelly identical to the description that Maxwell gave of her .... short , stout and dark other than Maxwell elaborated by giving her age as well of around 23
Nick, I thought about that too but there are reports that say that Joseph Barnett was also known as 'Danny' and worked at Billinsgate on occassion and also as an orange seller. Do you think those reports came as a direct result of Lewis identifying MJK's other half as 'Dan', rather than Joseph?
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