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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Social Chat > Other Mysteries > A6 Murders

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  #4841  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:22 PM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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To clarify, I believe that Hanratty’s alibi was a genuine one (eventually). When I said it was a ‘dead end’ I was not abandoning belief in his alibi but accepting the limitations of that alibi. It is very hard to prove a negative as we all know, and I do not think there is any more evidence available from which to argue Hanratty’s alibi. He did not need to provide one and it offers no more mileage to those who believe in his innocence. It has become a sideshow for those on the prosecution side who wish to pick (justifiably) holes within it. Would that they were asked to provide an alibi for two months ago and see how they fare! An accused has no more need to provide an alibi than the prosecution has to provide a motive. On balance I would suggest Hanratty did a better job. His alibi is better than the prosecution’s motive.


Hanratty’s alibi is hardly worthless so could have not been plucked out of thin air. There are a number of witnesses who believed they saw him in both Liverpool and Rhyl at the relevant times, one of which is even time-stamped. We are often told on here that Jim Hanratty was unlucky but if his alibi was fictitious, then he was actually extremely lucky. Extremely lucky to have so many independent witnesses confirm it. Of course, they could have been mistaken, or ‘suggestible’ as has been suggested here. No more suggestible however than the ID witnesses who saw Hanratty driving near Redbridge I would contend, nor even Valerie Storie herself.

And then there is massive lack of those ‘wishing to get in on the act.’ In Redbridge and Liverpool/Rhyl they were lining up to get their five minutes of fame. Yet in sleepy Taplow, the very heart of the crime, no one saw or heard anything. No roadside driver, no train ticket collector, no train passenger, nothing. The only link to Hanratty and the cornfield is Valerie Storie whose evidence is obviously undermined by an earlier identification.
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  #4842  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:31 PM
cobalt cobalt is offline
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What really is perplexing is why Hanratty's supporters keep relating this story as a fact when Janet Gregsten herself described it as an invention of the tabloid press. Stop it, please.

No. I can't stop Alfie.
I was not referring to the 'I saw him at the dry cleaners' vision which all sides surely regard as ridiculous. We may of course argue whether the story came from William Ewer or was concocted by tabloid reporters.

I was referring to the poliice activity in Swiss Cottage weeks before any cartridges were found in the Vienna Hotel. That police actiivity may, or may not, have been instigated by William Ewer as he claimed, but according to two shop keepers the name of one James Ryan (alias James Hanratty) was obtained by the police as a result of their enquiries. A massive coincidence you would surely acknoweldge.

This is the same Swiss Cottage arcade where Dixie France found it necessary to visit Wiliam Ewer's shop and offer his condolences, to a man he apparently did not know. Well beyond the normal bounds of sympathetic citizenship I would suggest.
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  #4843  
Old 05-16-2018, 03:25 PM
NickB NickB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
Yet in sleepy Taplow, the very heart of the crime, no one saw or heard anything.
If he had met someone in Taplow who he thought could have identified him later (i.e. had an interchange with them instead of being just a passing stranger) he would have been foolish to proceed with the hold-up. So the lack of sightings in Taplow does not surprise me. Although if his photo had been published before the trial it might have jogged someone’s memory.
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  #4844  
Old 05-16-2018, 10:19 PM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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"As for the perplexing reason why a family member of the victim identified a man answering to Hanratty’s alias in Swiss Cottage weeks before his arrest….."

"I was not referring to the 'I saw him at the dry cleaners' vision ... I was referring to the poliice activity in Swiss Cottage weeks before any cartridges were found in the Vienna Hotel."

Why it's a waste of time responding to conspiracy theorists - Reason #683.
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  #4845  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:09 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt View Post
The bullets can only be linked via the testimony of Nudds
... and Hanratty who admitted he stayed in the room where they were found.
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  #4846  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:12 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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......and the gun which was forensically proven to be the murder-weapon and which was found in a place that Hanratty admitted was where he somethimes dumped unwanted articles.

Graham
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  #4847  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:29 AM
Alfie Alfie is offline
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Woffinden says (p.148) in regards to Louise Anderson telling Charlotte France at Ampthill about the gun in her airing cupboard: "... the conversation was directly engineered in order to disconcert Charlotte immediately before she was due to give evidence. ... if it was true, then it was highly relevant, probably admissible and certainly persuasive evidence. So why was it never given in evidence by Anderson herself, either at the magistrates’ or the assize court? The explanation can only be that the Crown did not regard it as true."

Would such evidence have been admissable? Or would the court have held it to be hearsay evidence and therefore not allowed?

And if it wasn't Hanratty who told Anderson about wrapping the gun in a Tomkins carrier bag and hiding it under pink blankets in an airing cupboard at the top of the stairs, who did she hear it from?

Anderson said that Hanratty "used to keep it in a cupboard at the top of the stairs" [my italics]. If she was being truthful, this suggests that he hid it there on more than one occasion, which further suggests that he'd had the weapon for some time, perhaps even before he resumed his friendship with Dixie in mid-July.

Last edited by Alfie : 05-22-2018 at 07:43 AM.
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  #4848  
Old 05-23-2018, 07:47 AM
Tony Tony is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
......and the gun which was forensically proven to be the murder-weapon and which was found in a place that Hanratty admitted was where he somethimes dumped unwanted articles.

Graham
Hello Graham, I've not spoken to you for a long time now but I am still around.

I used to have Michael Hanratty's phone number and we spoke on some occasions and this was a point I brought up with him.

This was his reply: "When I went to see Jimmy in prison I mentioned about hiding stuff under the back seat of the bus." Jimmy said: "Look Mick I know I am not the brightest in the world but do you or anyone else seriously think I would shoot and kill someone and then leave the murder weapon on a public service vehicle where it was bound to found. I would have chucked it in the river somewhere. Yes I admit I did used to hide unwanted or worthless jewellery under the back seat but that is all."

Now if Hanratty habitually used to dump stuff under the back seat of the bus was any of it ever found before?
I have never seen or heard of any cleaners or conductors finding or handing in any such loot.
Has anybody else? If it was such a regular habit somebody must have reported it at least once.

Tony.
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  #4849  
Old 05-23-2018, 07:59 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Hi Tony,

good to see you back. Julie Limehouse was I believe in contact with Maureen Hanratty at one time, so maybe if you dropped her a PM she could help.

Re: the 'back seat of a bus', my own feeling is that JH told France about this hiding place well before the A6 Murder. I don't suppose bus-cleaners even bothered to report any findings under the back seat, but a gun + ammo was a different matter. If JH is adamant that he didn't dispose of the gun there, then either he was not being truthful (given the dreadful predicament he was in that would be understandable) or someone else planted it. Any suggestions as to who that 'someone' might have been?

Rgds,

Graham
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  #4850  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:43 AM
NickB NickB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie View Post
Would such evidence have been admissable? Or would the court have held it to be hearsay evidence and therefore not allowed?
I think that if the gloves were inadmissible evidence the gun was likely to be too.

A problem with Anderson is that she revealed increasingly incriminating things about Jim like a dance of the seven veils, culminating in what she told the News of the World reporter, each of which prompted the question:”Why didn’t she say that before?”.

Also, the idea he’d had the gun a long time did not fit in with the prosecution suggestion that it was because of the gun’s recent acquisition that he was playing with it in the Vienna. Although this was not a crucial point.

Last edited by NickB : 05-23-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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