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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #41  
Old 04-19-2018, 11:27 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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You know, I couldn't care less if a member of this forum wants to swear in front of a young girl although it's amusing to read the long defensive reaction about such appalling behaviour. My only point has been that it is utterly ridiculous, not mention absurdly stereotypical, to say that a man from Liverpool would never swear in front of a young girl.
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2018, 11:33 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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I can only assume that the extremely hostile reaction to this thread from one member of the forum is for three reasons. Firstly because I have posted a document that neither she nor Keith Skinner was able to locate, secondly because I have demonstrated an obvious error by that person when she said to me sourly that the invoice did not show as much as I may have been hoping for (and she never acknowledges or corrects such errors) and thirdly because this person once posted of the word processor:

'As I recall, it was purchased second hand with money given to Mike and Anne by Anne's father?'

These were Keith Skinner's words being posted but apparently to even suggest Keith might have got something wrong is like blasphemy where some people are concerned.

Now we know that Anne's father was prepared to bankroll Mike with a quite large sum of money in 1986 there would be nothing particularly unusual in him giving Mike another £50 in 1992 to acquire a photograph album.

We know from Mike's affidavit that he muddled up his dates. For example, he said in that affidavit that, "I had actually written the "Jack the Ripper Diary" first on my word processor, which I purchased in 1985" but we now know for sure that the purchase was in 1986. He also said, "I finally decided in November 1993 that enough was enough and I made it clear from that time on that the Diary of Jack the Ripper was a forgery," and "Since December 1993 I have been trying, through the press, the Publishers, the Author of the Book, Mrs Harrison, and my Agent Doreen Montgomery to expose the fraud of ' The Diary of Jack the Ripper" but he didn't make his forgery "confession" until June 1994 (firstly to Shirley Harrison on 21st June and then to Harold Brough of the Liverpool Daily Post three days later). He said that Tony Devereux died "late May early June 1990" when it was August 1991 . So there would be nothing odd about Mike making another error when he dated the acquisition of the guardbook. He was drinking very heavily at the time and clearly one has to make allowances when it comes to chronology, especially as he also makes clear in the affidavit that he acquired his red diary BEFORE the guardbook and we know for a fact that the red diary was acquired in March 1992.

As to the red diary, here is what the world's leading expert tells us about what Barrett said on the subject in his affidavit:

"I suggest he mentioned the red diary to Alan Gray, in the context of having given it to Anne recently, and Gray helped him "make something of it" in his January 1995 affidavit." (#1677, Acquiring a Victorian Diary)

So we are being told that Alan Gray is responsible for the contents of Mike's affidavit based on what Mike had told him. This is quite possible, in which case perhaps it was Gray who muddled up the dates, misunderstanding what Mike had told him and Mike did not read the affidavit properly before he signed it.
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2018, 02:19 PM
GUT GUT is offline
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Sadly, I missed that classic post, Lord Orsam. I have no doubt that whatever it was, it would be cogent, impassioned, and its points well made and I genuinely regret it not making it as far as my attention.

You're still wrong about the journal, of course, though I suspect I'm on the wrong thread to be reminding you of that.

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I trust you are not suggesting that the certificate of purchase that I posted from Dixons showing the sale of an Amstrad at full retail price in 1986 reflects anything other than the sale and purchase of a new word processor, one which could never be described as "second hand".

I know nothing about Dixon’s but I certainly know of companies where just that could, would, and did happen.
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  #44  
Old 04-19-2018, 02:22 PM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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I know nothing about Dixon’s but I certainly know of companies where just that could, would, and did happen.
Sure but what I'm getting at is that even in those examples you mention, the customer, through paying full retail price, presumably thinks he is being sold a brand new model and has no reason to think otherwise, and therefore wouldn't describe it as "second hand".
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  #45  
Old 04-20-2018, 02:38 AM
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A fellow student and friend of mine at UCL, a linguistics student, was related to Sir James Whitehead, whose inaugural Lord Mayor's Parade was rained upon by the murder of Mary Kelly. Small world!
Blimey, Gareth. Small world indeed.

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  #46  
Old 04-20-2018, 02:54 AM
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You see no relevance in the fact that Mike and Anne lied about when and why they bought the word processor? I thought it was in order to "tidy up" Mike's 1991 research notes? In 1986?
Prove Mike was making research notes back in 1991, rj. If you can't I shall continue to presume that was a lie too. The Barretts both lied. So again, what's new?

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When this receipt was obtained by Feldman's team in the mid-90s it should have sent off alarm bells about Anne Graham's credibility. Was she even asked about the contradiction?
Search me. I wasn't around in the mid-90s, rj. Shirley wasn't on Feldman's 'team' and was presumably sent a copy of the receipt by a gloating Melvin Harris, who had obtained his from Alan Gray?

If the word processor was bought in 1986 to type up Mike's freelance articles for submission, it would also have been used to produce the transcript of the diary and the typed up research notes, which were handed over to Doreen and co between the Spring and Summer of 1992.

Nothing about the word processor and what it was used for rings 'alarm bells' for me. The one thing that does ring true is the strong likelihood that no transcript or research notes existed in any form in the Barrett home before mid-March 1992 at the earliest.

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  #47  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
My only point has been that it is utterly ridiculous, not mention absurdly stereotypical, to say that a man from Liverpool would never swear in front of a young girl.
Direct quote please David! I qualified this by saying that if and when a swear word does slip out in mixed company [women and/or children], in my experience the chap in question generally apologises profusely. I don't see why that is so controversial. If you really can't see the difference between this and cursing in frustration in the privacy of one's own home, not realising it has been overheard and absorbed by one's three year-old, I can't help you.

I maintain that it simply doesn't ring true that Tony Devereux would have used the f word in front of a friend's ten year-old daughter [actually still nine in the Spring/Summer of 1991] and that she would quote verbatim the words Tony had used when recalling the conversation a couple of years later.

But then we both believe it never happened, and that Mike the liar was up to his tricks again, so the whole argument was doomed to be pointless from the moment you posted Shirley's words on the subject.

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Last edited by caz : 04-20-2018 at 03:24 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-20-2018, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
So we are being told that Alan Gray is responsible for the contents of Mike's affidavit based on what Mike had told him. This is quite possible, in which case perhaps it was Gray who muddled up the dates, misunderstanding what Mike had told him and Mike did not read the affidavit properly before he signed it.
Not 'told', David. It was 'suggested' as a possibility, that's all. And you agree, in which case the whole affidavit, its validity and veracity, is thrown into question if there is even the slightest doubt that it was in Mike's own words and that he was aware of what he was signing.

And of course, with all that mucking fuddle over the dates and timings, you'd better hope that Alan Gray/Mike got the acquisition of the guardbook and red diary in the right chronological order. Having Tony Devereux severely ill but still breathing when the final words were written in the guardbook doesn't exactly give the whole yarn a ring of confidence.

'Several days prior to our purchase of materials I had started to roughly outline the Diary on my word processor.

Anne and I started to write the Diary in all it took us 11 days. I worked on the story [??] and then I dictated it to Anne who wrote it down in the Photograph Album and thus we produced the Diary of Jack the Ripper. Much to my regret there was a witness to this, my young daughter Caroline.

During this period when we were writing the Diary, Tony Devereux was house-bound, very ill and in fact after we completed the Diary we left it for a while with Tony being severly (sic) ill and in fact he died late May early June 1990.'

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  #49  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:15 AM
David Orsam David Orsam is offline
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Here's a direct quote:

"I'd be surprised if Tony would ever have used the f word in front of young Caroline, assuming they ever met, as he had three daughters of his own and Liverpudlians in my experience [don't groan at the back there] may swear in the company of other men, but are quite puritanical when it comes to hearing or using bad language when women or children are present."

Like I said, absurdly stereotypical and clearly just someone making up something ridiculous to support a particular argument. It's irrelevant whether the conversation happened or not (although what was being said, as I understand it, was that the conversation DID happen but that it was with Eddie Lyons not Tony Devereux), it's the nature of the argument I'm talking about, especially coming from someone who appears to have no problem in using bad language "when women or children are present".
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  #50  
Old 04-20-2018, 11:23 AM
rjpalmer rjpalmer is offline
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The Barretts both lied. So again, what's new?
Anne Graham lied? Can you give me an example? You've spent much of the past two weeks, Dear caz, arguing that Anne showed great innocence and integrity by bringing forth the maroon diary. So if she was selling pork pies why am I supposed to believe her?

But that's hardly the point. Keith assured us, or at least me, that the new improved Battlecrease provenance could neatly explain the motivations and behaviors of all the key players. If the Diary was nicked from Battlecrease in March 1992, it all starts to make sense.

But I disagree, and I think Keith's suggestion falls flat on its face when it comes to Anne Graham. The word processor lie is an example.

Had the Barretts been involved in the creation of the Diary, then lying about when the word processor was purchased makes perfect sense. It was an attempt to disguise Mike's earlier career as a would-be (and partially successful) freelance writer. Had they stolen the Diary from Fast Eddy, this lie about when they purchased the word processor would have been pointless and unnecessary. Much the same can be said about the purchase of the red diary.
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