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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Maybrick, James

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  #311  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:40 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Caz, you're obviously the expert here, and I bow humbly to your far greater knowledge of the events and the people in them...
I wouldn't say that, Graham, and I know others wouldn't either.

Quote:
...but I do get the sense that there might have been more to Robbie that meets the eye.
Oh yes, I agree, and it's fortunate that it was Albert - not Robbie - who bought the watch and found the scratches, or we'd have had another 'Mike' situation. But even if Robbie was 'on the make' and thought he was looking after Albert's interests, and he'd get his reward in this life if not in heaven, it doesn't mean that either of them was knowingly involved in a recent hoax. What's more, they both returned more than once to the Murphys to pester them with questions about the watch [much like Mike had supposedly pestered someone living in Fountains Road about the diary, but without the supporting evidence for it ], which would have been a pointlessly risky exercise for the person who had hoaxed it. I mean, if Mike hoaxed the diary, using a guardbook he had bought at auction from Outhwaite & Litherland, would he have gone back with it to show them and ask questions about the content? That's what we are expected to believe the Johnsons did with the watch. It's nuts, isn't it?

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I'm glad that the Watch did eventually end up in the possession of Daisy - some rare good in this whole sorry tale of the Diary and Watch.
Indeed, Graham.

Love,

Caz
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Last edited by caz : 03-15-2018 at 04:52 AM.
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  #312  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:09 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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I wouldn't say that, Graham, and I know others wouldn't either
Well, I would....so there.

I never implied that Albert (or Robbie) were up to anything suspicious with the Watch; what I was saying was that had they sold the Watch to Davis who then at some future point discovered for sure that it was fake, they could have been on the receiving end of an action for fraud, of which they were totally innocent. I think they did absolutely the right thing by not selling it to Davis (or anyone else).

Personally, I think the Watch is in the same dusty little compartment as the Diary - a fake. I've been racking my brains trying to think of any other serial killer who scratched the initials of his victims in a watch - or any other object, for that matter. I could just possibly accept a killer writing some kind of weird testimony, for old time's sake, to be found and gaped at after his death.

Graham
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  #313  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:58 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Just thought that Iíd mention the obvious. Itís incredibly difficult to score handwriting into such a small area and make it vaguely legible let alone match the handwriting of a signature. And then to do it so that expert examination canít prove itís not of the time suggested. Not saying itís real or a fake. Just not something any Tom, Dick or Albert could do
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  #314  
Old 03-16-2018, 03:25 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Hi HS,

Try telling that to the sceptics. For the diary to be a modern hoax, the watch has to be one too. I see no possible alternative. That's one of the reasons I just can't get my head round the diary being a modern Barrett hoax.

Even otherwise intelligent posters have insisted it would be a doddle for a hoaxer to completely polish out all existing surface scratches [including those seen by Mr Murphy the jeweller] then make those engravings, followed by some more surface scratches and more polishing, to make the whole thing look identical to how it looked in July 1992, so nobody would be suspicious, and then have two experts test them and find nothing inconsistent with them having been put there many decades before.

The engravings were found to be underneath all other scratch marks examined, and therefore pre-dating them.

Love,

Caz
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  #315  
Old 03-16-2018, 05:28 AM
Graham Graham is offline
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Hi Caz,

am re-reading Ripper Diary and enjoying. The other day I came across the finding, in the spine of the Diary, a quantity of black powder which I think Eastaugh cautiously identified as 'bone black', a carbon compound made from incinerated animal bone. This material had many industrial and household applications in Victorian times including, as I recall, an antidote for certain common poisons, including arsenic. I mentioned this on the Forum some time ago, but it wasn't picked up by anyone. Sorry, but I can't recall where I read that bone black was used as an antidote for certain poisons, but I'm sure a search of the net will locate further information. As we know, Maybrick was an arsenic addict, but perhaps it's too far a stretch of the imagination to suggest that the bone black got into the Diary when he was snorting it to alleviate the effects of arsenic.

Any comments on this? Was the bone black discussed in any detail at the time of researching your book?

Graham
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  #316  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:53 AM
Herlock Sholmes Herlock Sholmes is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post
Hi HS,

Try telling that to the sceptics. For the diary to be a modern hoax, the watch has to be one too. I see no possible alternative. That's one of the reasons I just can't get my head round the diary being a modern Barrett hoax.

Even otherwise intelligent posters have insisted it would be a doddle for a hoaxer to completely polish out all existing surface scratches [including those seen by Mr Murphy the jeweller] then make those engravings, followed by some more surface scratches and more polishing, to make the whole thing look identical to how it looked in July 1992, so nobody would be suspicious, and then have two experts test them and find nothing inconsistent with them having been put there many decades before.

The engravings were found to be underneath all other scratch marks examined, and therefore pre-dating them.

Love,

Caz
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Hi Caz,

I certainly think that itís rather optimistic to suggest that itís something that anyone with a few tools could accomplish. I donít know, maybe Albert Johnson knew someone with the requisite skills? It would be interesting to hear more opinions from experts in this particular field though.

Maybe this is the reason why the diary attracts considerably more attention than the watch?
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  #317  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:13 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Hi HS,

Seems the only 'expert' we need on this one is David "Awesome" Orsam, who has speculated that one of Albert's colleagues could have 'set him up', presumably by asking him to bring in the gold watch he had mentioned buying the year before, whipping out his tools while a second colleague distracted Albert for ten minutes, so he could open up the back of the watch, prepare the inside surface before putting the marks there and some more random scratch marks on top, finally polishing them all until barely visible and looking suitably old and worn. Then it was just a simple matter of closing the watch, drawing Albert's attention back to it, asking him to open it for the assembled company and to hold it up to the light so the faint scratches could be seen, at which point the hoaxer suggested looking at them under the microscopes in the college lab.

Our mission, should you wish to accept it, is to rule this out.

Currently listening to my better half on Sid Valley Radio, doing his second voluntary 'Mod' spot, ten to twelve, or I wouldn't be posting on a Sunday.

http://sidvalleyradio.co.uk

Love,

Caz
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  #318  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:26 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
Hi Caz,

am re-reading Ripper Diary and enjoying. The other day I came across the finding, in the spine of the Diary, a quantity of black powder which I think Eastaugh cautiously identified as 'bone black', a carbon compound made from incinerated animal bone. This material had many industrial and household applications in Victorian times including, as I recall, an antidote for certain common poisons, including arsenic. I mentioned this on the Forum some time ago, but it wasn't picked up by anyone. Sorry, but I can't recall where I read that bone black was used as an antidote for certain poisons, but I'm sure a search of the net will locate further information. As we know, Maybrick was an arsenic addict, but perhaps it's too far a stretch of the imagination to suggest that the bone black got into the Diary when he was snorting it to alleviate the effects of arsenic.

Any comments on this? Was the bone black discussed in any detail at the time of researching your book?

Graham
Not really, Graham, probably because we were concentrating on the story of what was happening during the first ten years of the diary and watch being in the public domain.

If bone black was used as an antidote for arsenic poisoning, it will no doubt be put down to another odd little coincidence, because surely if Mike Barrett had known this and put it in the diary to help things along, he'd have said so when making his January 1995 affidavit. That kind of evidence and inside knowledge Anne could not have destroyed or prevented Mike from blabbing about.

[She wrote, dancing round the living room.]

Love,

Caz
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  #319  
Old 03-19-2018, 12:59 AM
Iconoclast Iconoclast is offline
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[She wrote, dancing round the living room.]
Love,
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Please please please get to the final and play a depleted, uninterested squad against Newcastle in the last game of the season.

Pretty please.
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  #320  
Old 03-19-2018, 01:13 AM
John G John G is offline
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I know you didn't say that, I never accused you of saying it, in fact it was me who said it.

You're saying "We can't tell if what Mike Barrett said is true"...I'm saying let's discount all of it.



Yes it's the whole "Mike Barrett couldn't write a sick note" narrative that is a total myth.



Yes.



Yes, but your idea of a conspiracy is a nest of forgers, mine is Mike, Ann and a couple of friends or family members.



Yep, we've done this to death really, back to "couldn't write a sick note"...fine Ann tidied up his articles, maybe even changed a few words or took a bit out, she is definitely part of any conspiracy so fine, so what?



Back to "Sick note"....and this has been done to death too, who met him before his stroke?

Faked a stroke? Fine then he is deliberately trying to appear less competent than he was....and we all go around the Maybrickaround again.
I didn't say anything about a "nest of forgers", so that's obviously fake news. Mike named three people who were involved in the conspiracy, including himself, and that may well have been correct. In fact, I seriously doubt that there were lots of individuals involved, as it increases the odds that someone else would have broken ranks by now, and financially everyone's share of the spoils would be seriously diluted.

You keep referring to Mike's stroke. However, have you any evidence that, long term, it impacted on his cognitive abilities? In fact, accordingly to one study, the prevalence of post-stroke cognitive impairment, at 3 months and five years, was only around 22%: Douiri et al. 2012.

You see, we keep coming back to the fact that just about everyone who met Mike after the diary was published concluded that it was unlikely he could have been the author. You reason that this was because of the stroke, but I see little evidence for this. It may be on account of his alcoholism, but that may have been a factor before the diary wss published, further reducing the likelihood that he was the author.

Moreover, as I keep pointing out, in any conspiracy there would be more reasons than the issue of literacy skills to limit Mike's involvement, i.e. his erratic temperament, and his blabermouth tendency.

Last edited by John G : 03-19-2018 at 01:33 AM.
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