Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Non-Fiction: Walter Dew's account...... - by RockySullivan 30 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by RockySullivan 45 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by RockySullivan 48 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by Abby Normal 1 hours ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by FrankO 1 hour and 22 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by packers stem 1 hour and 28 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (33 posts)
Torso Killings: torso maps - (22 posts)
Mary Jane Kelly: If Mrs. Maxwell Didn't See Mary Who Did She See? - (11 posts)
Research Related: Henry Kelly - (5 posts)
Non-Fiction: Walter Dew's account...... - (4 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (3 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #151  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:09 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Hi RJ.

This part of Hutchinson's story you quoted, "After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed", was provided in the Central News interview, not part of his police statement.

There is no dispute that this interview took place at the Victoria Home, yet he did not say "this place was closed", or "here, it was closed", so "his usual place" had to be some other address.

He does give the Victoria Home as his address on Monday in the police statement, but that does not mean he was staying there Thursday/Friday of the previous week.
But he does say "After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I came in as soon as it opened in the morning."

Not "went in". Doesn't this indicate that the place he's in now is the same place he entered in the morning, his usual place, ie the Victoria Home?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:12 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
he even added the red hankercheif of sailor man and a dastardly curled up mustache to boot!
Show me an adult Jew who didn't wear a black moustache - it was the fashion of the time.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:20 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
If he was there at all, which I doubt. Like I suggested, what kind of idiot would wander the streets all night in the rain, having spent 45 minutes in or around a courtyard that had a covered passageway leading to it?
No other witness mention rain - only Cox, and her statement doesn't jive with that given by Prater, who made no mention of rain, neither did Lewis, Kennedy or Bowyer who visited the water pump that morning.
So, it may not be wise to put your faith in the one solitary statement, especially when it seems to conflict with Praters.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:31 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
But he does say "After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I came in as soon as it opened in the morning."

Not "went in". Doesn't this indicate that the place he's in now is the same place he entered in the morning, his usual place, ie the Victoria Home?
Joshua.

Can you locate your reference?

This is what the interview says:
"I believe that he lives in the neighborhood, and I fancied that I saw him in Petticoat-lane on Sunday morning, but I was not certain. Kelly did not seem to me to be drunk, but was a little bit spreeish. After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed. I am able to fix the time, as it was between ten and five minutes to two o'clock as I came by Whitechapel Church. When I left the corner of Miller's-court the clock struck three o'clock. One policeman went by the Commercial-street end of Dorset-street while I was standing there, but not one came down Dorset-street. I saw one man go into a lodging-house in Dorset-street, and no one else. I have been looking for the man all day."
Star, Nov. 14, 1888.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:38 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
Joshua.

Can you locate your reference?
Yes Jon, it's the Daily News 14th Nov.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:55 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,298
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Yes Jon, it's the Daily News 14th Nov.
Hi Joshua.

There were several newspapers which carried the interview, amazingly, they are not the same (wonderful), The Times & Star do not include that line, yet others do.

Ok, lets say for arguments sake this was part of the interview.

"I came in as soon as it opened in the morning."

"IT" ?
where is "it"?

See how many times his interview uses the word "came", for instance he says:

"...as I came by Whitechapel Church"

He doesn't say, "I went by Whitechapel Church"

Also:

"... but not one came down Dorset street."

He didn't say, "but not one went down Dorset street".
This interview was not being conducted in Dorset street, agreed?

So I would think the use of "I came in" is not out of the ordinary for Hutchinson when talking about another address, plus he also says "as it opened", as if he is referring to somewhere else, again.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:35 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,766
Default

The Morning Advertiser 14th Nov describes the details of Hutchinson's statement but doesn't name him, instead saying "The name of the man who has given the information referred to to the police is purposely withheld for reasons which are necessary for his own safety"

And also "He afterwards heard of the murder, but for certain reasons which it would be imprudent to state he did not immediately put himself in communication with the police."

Is this the MA being overly cautious (since every other paper went ahead and named him), or was the name George Hutchinson an alias?
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:39 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,766
Default

The Pall Mall Gazette 14th Nov has the Hutchinson statement, followed by this intriguing article;

"WHAT IS CONSIDERED IMPORTANT?
A paragraph in the morning papers states that the police have received from Mr. Samuel Osborne, wire worker, 20, Garden row, London road, a statement to the effect that he was walking along St. Paul's churchyard yesterday behind a respectably dressed man, when a parcel, wrapped in a newspaper, fell from the man's coat. Osborne told him that he had dropped something; but the man denied that the parcel belonged to him. Osborne picked up the parcel, and found that it contained a knife, having a peculiarly shaped handle and a thick blade, six or seven inches long, with stains upon it resembling blood. The parcel also contained a brown kid glove, smeared with similar stains on both sides. Osborne found a constable, and together they searched for the mysterious individual, but without success. The parcel, says the paragraph, was handed to the City police authorities, "who, however, attach no importance to the matter." What on earth could be more important, after the statement made by the man Hutchinson and quoted above?"
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:30 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,054
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
No other witness mention rain - only Cox, and her statement doesn't jive with that given by Prater, who made no mention of rain, neither did Lewis, Kennedy or Bowyer who visited the water pump that morning.
So, it may not be wise to put your faith in the one solitary statement, especially when it seems to conflict with Praters.
Don't the weather reports provide at least some corroboration? Besides, rain or no rain, the fact remains that the passage into Millers Court would have been a roof over his head, which would also have given him an opportunity to keep watch on Kelly's room.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:32 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,054
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
or was the name George Hutchinson an alias?
No, he was George Hutchinson alright.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.