Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Main
   

Introduction
Victims
Suspects
Witnesses
Ripper Letters
Police Officials
Official Documents
Press Reports
Victorian London
Message Boards
Ripper Media
Authors
Dissertations
Timelines
Games & Diversions
Photo Archive
Ripper Wiki
Casebook Examiner
Ripper Podcast
About the Casebook

Most Recent Posts:
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Batman 59 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 1 hours ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Sam Flynn 1 hour and 12 minutes ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Batman 1 hour and 19 minutes ago.
Motive, Method and Madness: JtR was Law Enforcement Hypothesis - by Batman 1 hour and 23 minutes ago.
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - by Sam Flynn 1 hour and 26 minutes ago.

Most Popular Threads:
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - (15 posts)
Elizabeth Stride: For what reason do we include Stride? - (12 posts)
Doctors and Coroners: Eddowes' gut cut - (5 posts)
General Suspect Discussion: Kansas Physician Confirms Howard Report - (3 posts)
General Discussion: The Weapon - (3 posts)
A6 Murders: A6 Rebooted - (2 posts)

Wiki Updates:
Robert Sagar
Edit: Chris
May 9, 2015, 12:32 am
Online newspaper archives
Edit: Chris
Nov 26, 2014, 10:25 am
Joseph Lawende
Edit: Chris
Mar 9, 2014, 10:12 am
Miscellaneous research resources
Edit: Chris
Feb 13, 2014, 9:28 am
Charles Cross
Edit: John Bennett
Sep 4, 2013, 8:20 pm

Most Recent Blogs:
Mike Covell: A DECADE IN THE MAKING.
February 19, 2016, 11:12 am.
Chris George: RipperCon in Baltimore, April 8-10, 2016
February 10, 2016, 2:55 pm.
Mike Covell: Hull Prison Visit
October 10, 2015, 8:04 am.
Mike Covell: NEW ADVENTURES IN RESEARCH
August 9, 2015, 3:10 am.
Mike Covell: UPDDATES FOR THE PAST 11 MONTHS
November 14, 2014, 10:02 am.
Mike Covell: Mike’s Book Releases
March 17, 2014, 3:18 am.

Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #141  
Old 12-14-2017, 01:13 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Respectably dressed, at any rate. Whether he had a similar appearance to Mr Astrakhan is hard to tell because, despite Best and Gardner having apparently spent some time standing in this man's vicinity - even exchanging some words with him - the sum total of B&G's combined testimony is nowhere near as detailed as George Hutchinson's.
exactly. respectably dressed-not ostentatiously wealthy dressed
__________________
"Is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"

-Edgar Allan Poe


"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 12-14-2017, 01:52 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
hi Sam
so you don't think he was waiting man as seen by Lewis?
There was a large lodging-house directly opposite the entrance to Miller's Court, so it's not inconceivable that the man seen by Lewis was one of the lodgers, or perhaps a member of staff, who'd nipped outside for a breath of air.
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:25 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Kilttown, Scotland
Posts: 834
Default

I thought this coat [the Moscow Wrapper] was an interesting suggestion for the coat "supposedly" worn by the "Astracan man". It seemed to be fashionable in the early 70s.

- Single-breasted Moscow Wrapper of brown Melton or Beaver. It is cut to hang rather full, the fronts close by a fly, and fasten up to the neck, and the sleeves are of the Pagoda form, wide at wrists. The collar is turned down all around, and is covered with black Astracan fur; all the edges of the coat, the bottom of the sleeves, and the breast pocket, are trimmed with bands of the same fur about two inches in width. [emphasis]
Attached Images
 
__________________
there,s nothing new, only the unexplored
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:51 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
Casebook Supporter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wales
Posts: 10,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
I thought this coat [the Moscow Wrapper] was an interesting suggestion...
Jack the Wrapper!
__________________
Kind regards, Sam Flynn

"Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:52 PM
Robert St Devil Robert St Devil is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Kilttown, Scotland
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Jack the Wrapper!
couldn't resist, couldya Sam?
__________________
there,s nothing new, only the unexplored
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:37 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
Hi Jon,
Who do you think the press were talking about when they wrote, on Nov. 19th, about the police being divided between Blotchy & A-man, them both being suspects?
Or, are you just ignoring that?


I believe on the 15th there is a press release that states the story is not being held in high esteem any longer, maybe this is when they concluded any investigation on him if there was one.
Michael.

Here's the sequence of events.
- Nov. 12th, Hutchinson provides the police with a story.
- Nov. 13th, A brief outline of this story is published in the press.
Plus, the Central News interview Hutchinson at the Victoria Home, while the press report that the police are divided between two suspects - Astrachan & Blotchy.
- Nov 14th, the Central News interview with Hutchinson appears in the press, while his story is now "the subject of careful inquiry"(Echo).
- Nov. 15th, The story by Hutchinson is now discredited (Star).
- Nov. 16th, the 'Galloway' story appears where a constable claims to be looking for a man quite different in appearance to Blotchy.
- Nov. 19th, reports are published that the police are still divided between two suspects - Astrachan & Blotchy.

Now Michael, at what point, in your opinion, do the police seem to find a problem and loose interest in Hutchinson's story?
__________________
Regards, Jon S.

Last edited by Wickerman : 12-14-2017 at 05:42 PM.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:56 PM
DJA DJA is offline
Chief Inspector
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Some Australian Mountain Range.
Posts: 1,587
Default

Someone who died of syphilis.
Ardent supporter of horse racing .....

https://static.artuk.org/w1200h1200/...CHAW_12662.jpg
__________________
My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:56 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post

hutch should be best witness by far and Aman should be suspect number one.

and yet none of the police later give his man any credence and neither do we.
Yet, Abberline's 'pet' suspect undoubtedly was 'Respectable', with a strong Jewish Appearance.

He didn't get that from Long, Schwartz, Lawende or Cox. Only one witness offered that description.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 12-14-2017, 06:53 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rjpalmer View Post
I don't see it that way.

Here is what Hutchinson said:

"After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed."

But surely that doesn't mean to say he just now realizes (at 3 a.m.) that the Victoria W. M.'s Home was closed?

I don't see it. These were his usual digs; 'closed' means 'curfew,' and he would have known the curfew. Half-way from Romford he already knew he was 'screwed,' and this is confirmed when, reaching the East End, he hears the clock strike 2 a.m. Hence he loiters in Fashion & Dean & environs until 3 a.m. and then wanders around until daybreak, because, he states, "the place where I usually sleep was closed." (Almost an afterthought after explaining the entire night's movements). That's how I've always read it.
Hi RJ.

This part of Hutchinson's story you quoted, "After I left the court I walked about all night, as the place where I usually sleep was closed", was provided in the Central News interview, not part of his police statement.

There is no dispute that this interview took place at the Victoria Home, yet he did not say "this place was closed", or "here, it was closed", so "his usual place" had to be some other address.

He does give the Victoria Home as his address on Monday in the police statement, but that does not mean he was staying there Thursday/Friday of the previous week.

There was a rule, it might be in the Common Lodging house Act of 1851, but all Common Lodging houses had to close while the common areas were cleaned. If I recall correctly it was between 2-3.00, but I would like to see the reference again to be sure.

The Lodginghouse keeper Wilkinson (Eddowes case) at Flower & Dean St., said he generally closed at 2:30 or 3:00, I suspect this is in recognition of the Act.

If Hutchinson was occupied with his sighting from 2:00 onwards, for the best part of the hour, then his "usual place" would close up before he left Millers Court.

This is why I say he only discovered that he had no place to stay after he left the court. It's an assumption based on some general rule, but it might explain his comment in his interview.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:08 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
Commisioner
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
He claimed that he'd known Kelly for five years, which - if her biography has any grains of truth in it - is difficult to believe in itself, as she apparently had only moved to London 4 years previously. That aside, we can say with some confidence that she'd only arrived in Spitalfields within the last two years, prior to which she'd lived at Stepney and around the Ratcliff Highway. To my mind it's rather unlikely that Hutchinson's trajectory took him to those places at the same time as Kelly and that, at best, he was likely exaggerating the length of their acquaintance; at worst, he made it up in order to make his encounter with her, and the subsequent interest he took in her liaison with Astrakhan Man, seem more plausible.
But Gareth, the truth is he claimed to have known Kelly for three years - which tends to blow a hole in your objection I suspect.
__________________
Regards, Jon S.
Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.