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Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Simon Wood 35 minutes ago.
Torso Killings: torso maps - by RockySullivan 41 minutes ago.
Hutchinson, George: Any updates, or opinions on this witness. - by Wickerman 1 hour and 3 minutes ago.

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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Hutchinson, George

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  #101  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:25 PM
Joshua Rogan Joshua Rogan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
Hi JR
I can see how he would have thought Maxwell was wrong, as TOD and the screams of murder were in the middle of the night. But why should he suspect hutch was wrong? he saw a suspicious person with her in the middle of the night.
Beats me, Abby. You're dead right about Maxwell and TOD though, he goes on to say;

"Indeed, if the medical evidence is accepted, Mrs. Maxwell could not have been right. The doctors were unable, because of the terrible mutilations, to say with any certainty just when death took place, but they were very emphatic that the girl could not have been alive at eight o'clock that morning.

And if Mrs. Maxwell was mistaken, is it not probable that George Hutchison erred also? This, without reflecting in any way on either witness, is my considered view. I believe that the man of the billycock hat and beard was the last person to enter Marie Kelly's room that night and was her killer. Always assuming that Mrs. Cox ever had seen her with a man."

Perhaps like us he was just trying to rationalise the initial police belief in the suspect with the subsequent seeming abandonment of him as a suspect?
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  #102  
Old 12-13-2017, 02:58 PM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
Beats me, Abby. You're dead right about Maxwell and TOD though, he goes on to say;

"Indeed, if the medical evidence is accepted, Mrs. Maxwell could not have been right. The doctors were unable, because of the terrible mutilations, to say with any certainty just when death took place, but they were very emphatic that the girl could not have been alive at eight o'clock that morning.

And if Mrs. Maxwell was mistaken, is it not probable that George Hutchison erred also? This, without reflecting in any way on either witness, is my considered view. I believe that the man of the billycock hat and beard was the last person to enter Marie Kelly's room that night and was her killer. Always assuming that Mrs. Cox ever had seen her with a man."

Perhaps like us he was just trying to rationalise the initial police belief in the suspect with the subsequent seeming abandonment of him as a suspect?
Yeah. And also that blotchy was the killer.
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  #103  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:14 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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I don't figure why Hutchinson would be hovering around Millers Court "looking for somewhere to crash"?
It was only after he left the court, around 3:00 am, that he found his "regular place" was closed.
That must indicate he wasn't looking for a place to stay the night before he left the court - he thought he had one.
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  #104  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:21 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by caz View Post

What I still don't buy is that Abberline wouldn't have winkled more out of Hutch about his real reasons for waiting there that long. A simple desire to see the man again just doesn't wash. He had supposedly drunk in every last inch of him the first time! There had to be more to it, whether he had intended to mug the man, or share Kelly's room when she was alone again, or both.

Love,

Caz
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You're quite right Caz, that question along with a few others.
This is what Abberline would have pursued in the interrogation, which came later.
The statement he gave at 6:00 pm on Monday night is only Hutchinson's initial story. This statement would have been used by Abberline later in the evening when he interrogated/interviewed Hutchinson. We only wish the written record of these exchanges had survived, it would answer so many questions.
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  #105  
Old 12-13-2017, 03:33 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Robert St Devil View Post
Considering her supposed lengthy absence and recent return to the oldest profession, would Hutch have known Mary Jane to be a prostitute? Would it have surprised him to see Mary Jane out "walking the streets" with strange men since she had been with Barnett only a week prior? I would've expected one of the questions asked of Hutchinson by the police was whether or not she solicited him.
I tend to think that was the reason Kelly was asking him for 6d, she was propositioning Hutchinson. When Hutch made reference to this he watered it down to her only wanting to borrow 6d.
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  #106  
Old 12-13-2017, 04:03 PM
MysterySinger MysterySinger is offline
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Still can't get past the thought that Richard Blake and George Hutchinson could have been one and the same (see separate thread).

But as for Maxwell, I think she was mistaken as to who she saw that morning, and the most likely person was Elizabeth Prater. Articles have shown that she and Kelly may have looked similar. Maxwell had known "Kelly" for 4 months, the same length of time Prater had lived in Miller's Court. Early reports seemed to indicate that the victim lived upstairs.
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  #107  
Old 12-13-2017, 04:05 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varqm View Post
Think about it,if Hutch was an upstanding person,his Romford visit,etc. checked out to be true,the Astakhan man was not going to be a prime suspect?,
Tell me, if Mrs Long was an upstanding woman, what happened to her 'suspect', the "shabby-genteel foreigner"?

What happened to Schwartz's 'suspect', the "broad-shouldered man"?

What happened to Lawende's 'suspect', the "red-neckerchief-man"?

Then of course we still have Mary Cox, so what happened to "Blotchy"?

C'mon Varqm, if you think the police lost interest in Hutchinson & his suspect because they make no further mention of him, then explain why Lawende, Schwartz, Long & Cox are no longer mentioned either.

Did they lose interest in all their suspects, or were the other witnesses liars too?
Then, they secretly believed some nobody called Kozminski was the killer, without a shred of evidence, or an established sighting?
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Last edited by Wickerman : 12-13-2017 at 04:10 PM.
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  #108  
Old 12-13-2017, 07:37 PM
Wickerman Wickerman is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
The fact that we have no investigation data does suggest they took this statement at face value,...
Michael.
You appear to believe there are no missing police files. Do you seriously believe that what exists today is all the paperwork that there was in this case?

Quote:
.....and the subsequent reposition of A man vs Blotchy as the "suspect of interest" that week suggests they did investigate his suspect.
What are you saying here?
A-man replaced Blotchy, therefore the police must have investigated A-man?
This contradicts your previous line, that they didn't investigate A-man.

Quote:
The mention of him later in December is contrasted by the report the same week as the statement that they came to disbelieve his story Jon.
Who do you think the press were talking about when they wrote, on Nov. 19th, about the police being divided between Blotchy & A-man, them both being suspects?
Or, are you just ignoring that?

Quote:
Because someone offers a later opinion on the viability of witness's suspect sighting long after that suspects sighting is being used in the active investigation doesn't mean it holds any water. The existing records discount those assertions.
How about providing some names to these vague assertions, it helps the reader follow what you are talking about.

Quote:
Hutch's suspect was discarded that same week,
What week, when?
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  #109  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:52 AM
Michael W Richards Michael W Richards is offline
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Hi Jon,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post

Michael.You appear to believe there are no missing police files. Do you seriously believe that what exists today is all the paperwork that there was in this case?

I don't presume to know what is in any document that is missing Jon.

What are you saying here?
A-man replaced Blotchy, therefore the police must have investigated A-man?
This contradicts your previous line, that they didn't investigate A-man
.

I'm saying that it would seem that they accepted the story he gave and the delightfully detailed suspect description, without us having any data to assess why they would do so, and that they did indeed investigate A man rather than following up on Blotchy. I was acknowledging that point. There is no suggestion in any known document that they investigated the witness and the rest of his story, i.e. Romford.


Who do you think the press were talking about when they wrote, on Nov. 19th, about the police being divided between Blotchy & A-man, them both being suspects?
Or, are you just ignoring that?


I believe on the 15th there is a press release that states the story is not being held in high esteem any longer, maybe this is when they concluded any investigation on him if there was one.


How about providing some names to these vague assertions, it helps the reader follow what you are talking about.

I thought you would recognize the reference to the story given by Israel Schwartz which is mentioned again weeks later I believe in the Police Gazette, neither of which makes any difference since neither Israel or his story apparently had any bearing on the question of who killed Liz Stride. Something which IS contradictory, if they believed him.

What week, when?

As I already mentioned, the same week he gave the story.
Regards Jon.
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  #110  
Old 12-14-2017, 05:11 AM
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caz caz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael W Richards View Post
In Hutchs case, his statement turned the lurking wideawake into a friend looking out for the victim...


No it didn't, Michael.

How in the name of sanity does waiting outside Kelly's room for 45 minutes, while God knows who is inside, doing God knows what to her, then leaving them to it and walking off into the night, add up to 'a friend looking out for the victim'??

Love,

Caz
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