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Old 08-14-2017, 12:06 PM
Varqm Varqm is offline
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Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 531

coroners act 1887

”who the deceased was, and how, when, and where the deceased came by his death, and, if he came by his death by murder or manslaughter”

"what is the supposed cause of death either known or suspected;whether the death was sudden;whether cause by violence as wounds,burns,ill-usage,poison,suicide"

---When the 'time' is in dispute 11 pm or 4 am,which is the 'when',the day?If 4 am or 9-10 am,who was the suspect.Does'nt/didn't the doctor's testimony put weight on which? Wasn't this part of the reason why post-mortem testimony was important to the inquest/coroner,it helped in the ”how” and ”when”.The 3 below [post-mortem descriptions not included] had,also mentioned was the weapon used.


Day 1, Saturday, September 1, 1888
Henry Llewellyn, surgeon,

”I have this morning made a post-mortem examination of the body”
”These cuts must have been caused with a long-bladed knife, moderately sharp, and used with great violence.”


Day 1, Monday, September 10, 1888
Mr. George Bagster Phillips, divisional-surgeon of police,

”I went to the labour- yard of the Whitechapel Union for the purpose of further examining the body and making the usual post-mortem investigation.
”[Coroner] Was the instrument used at the throat the same as that used at the abdomen? - Very probably. It must have been a very sharp knife, probably with a thin,
narrow blade, and at least six to eight inches in length, and perhaps longer.”


Day 1, Thursday, October 4, 1888
Dr. Frederick Gordon Brown

” I made a post-mortem examination on Sunday afternoon.”
”[Coroner] Does the nature of the wounds lead you to any conclusion as to the instrument that was used? - It must have been a sharp-pointed knife,
and I should say at least 6 in. long.”

---No post-mortem report/descriptions done in the Kelly inquest or questions about it by Macdonald, only about when Dr. Phillips entered Kelly's room.

---How about toxins from the post-mortem report, which MACDONALD noted was important?


Mr. William Sedgwick Saunders, medical officer of health for the City, said: I received the stomach of the deceased from Dr. Gordon Brown, carefully
sealed, and I made an analysis of the contents, which had not been interfered with in any way. I looked more particularly for poisons of the narcotic
class, but with negative results, there being not the faintest trace of any of those or any other poisons.

Daily News
United Kingdom
4 October 1888


SIR,-A remarkable incident in connection with the recent murders is that in no one instance has it been found that the victim made any noise or cry while being done to death. My assistant suggests
a theory in reference to this very remarkable fact, which strikes me as having something in it, and as such ought to be made public. The theory is that the murderer goes about with a vial of rum or brandy in his pocket drugged with an opiate-such as a solution of morphia, which is almost if not quite tasteless; that he offers a swig of it to his victims (which they would all be likely greedily to accept), when he meets them; that in about ten to twenty minutes the poison begins to do its work on constitutions well soaked with alcohol, and that then they are easily dispatched without fear of making any noise or call for assistance. Having been out of town lately for my holidays, I have not closely followed the evidence at the inquests, but there are two questions which would require clearing up if there is anything in this theory-1st. Have the stomachs been ripped open to do away with the evidence of poisoning in this manner? and 2nd. Has any analysis of the contents of the stomach been made?-Yours respectfully,

Coroner for N.-East Middlesex.
65, Westferry-road, Millwall, E., Oct. 3.

---The post-mortem was expected that's why the comments below:

Times (London)
Tuesday, 13 November 1888

The CORONER said it would not be necessary for the doctor to go into any further particulars then.
If it was necessary they could recall him at a subsequent period.

The jury had no questions to ask at this stage, and it was understood that more detailed evidence of the medical examination would be given at a
future hearing.An adjournment for a few minutes then took place

London, U.K.
12 November 1888
The Coroner said that the other portion of Dr. Phillips' evidence would be given at the adjourned inquiry.

Evening News
London, U.K.
13 November 1888


Some surprise was created among those present at the inquest in the Shoreditch Town Hall by the abrupt termination of the inquiry, as it was
well known that further evidence would be forthcoming. The coroner himself distinctly told the jury that he was only going to take the preliminary
portion of Dr. G.B. Phillips's evidence, the remainder of which would be more fully given at the adjourned inquiry.

---Macdonald did not follow the Coroner's act:

coroners act 1887

”who the deceased was, and how, when, and where the deceased came by his death, and, if he came by his death by murder or manslaughter”

"what is the supposed cause of death either known or suspected;whether the death was sudden;whether cause by violence as wounds,burns,


Coroner: ”If the coroner's jury can come to a decision as to the cause of death, then that is all that they have to do.”

or ”All they had to do was to ascertain the cause of death”

It's clear the inquest was done speedily.The police would take over from there.
The medical evidence would have done nothing as to alerting the killer/suspect.So what was the point in withholding info?
And how about new info,till the next inquest day, that could add to the how,when.

Last edited by Varqm : 08-14-2017 at 12:14 PM.
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