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Old 08-10-2017, 02:22 AM
Elamarna Elamarna is offline
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Default Bucks Row Project part 2 post 6 -Thain

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An important issue when looking at Thain is his Timings, to do this the first thing we need to look at is the beat of Thain. It is covered in the Echo report of the 21st September.

“The fourth constable would commence at Baker's row, go through Nottingham street, White
street, Bethnal Green road, Mape street, London street, to Baker's row, and all the interior, consisting of about thirty streets, courts, passages, &c.”


This was a very long beat,

The external walking distance is approximately 1470 yards, the internal is over 1800 yards giving a total of over 3250 yards, far greater than the beat of Neil.

If he covered the whole beat at 3mph it would take approx 37 minutes and if he walked at 2.5 mph it is a staggering 45 minutes. Indeed if he walked at a constant 3mph the greatest distance he could cover in 30 minutes is 2640 yards and if at at 2.5 we have maximum distance of 2190yards.

( feedback from part 1 has allowed me to reassess the likely walking speed of constables and I shall be making some changes in part 3 based on that, however for now I will continue to use both 2.5 and 3mph).


In the inquest reports when talking about the beat : he says “30 minutes”, ( Reports 2,4,5,6,7 ) or “about 30 minutes” ( Reports: 1,3,8 & 9 ).

It therefore seems clear that he did not do all the beat every circuit if his statement of 30 minutes is to be accepted, Not exactly half hour beat but close. However he passed at 3.15 and 3.45, report 7 seems to confirm this

It seems that he passed the end of bucks row close to 3.45

Reports : 1,3,7 & 8 say “about”, Reports : 2,3,4,5 & 9 give “at 3.45” or “a quarter to 4” and Report 6 makes no comment


He was signalled to by Neil and he responded and went to get the doctor.
When he arrived at Neil , he was alone reports: 1 & 7.


His next comments are of particular interest he says that on his return he saw 2 workmen standing with Neil, and he did not know them ( reports:2 & 7), this appears to be at odds with Neil’s statements that the first public to arrive were from the slaughter house. Is Thain saying these were not them or just that he did not know them personally, if the former and Neil is correct how then did they come to be here if Thain had not in fact already told them.
Or are the two men he sees with Neil, Purkiss and Green as speculated in part 2 post 4.

He says in reports 2,7 & 9 that he went to get his cape from the slaughter house, in reports 2 & 7 he says he had not left it there, but another constable had, there is no mention of whom, but one should assume Neil as it was on his beat. There is no mention of why, it was not raining, so could not have got wet.
In report 7 it is reported he did not go to the slaughter house first before the Doctor, in report 2 the wording is slightly different saying he did not say he was going for a doctor? Is this significant or just the wording being less than precise?
This is covered in a thread by David Orsam “PC Thain’s Cape which is worth reading. I shall analysis this more in part 3

We now need to asses his comments about the amount of blood

Report 1 large quantity on pavement, and back appeared saturated as far as waist.
Reports 4 & 5 large clot near wall running into gutter, back appeared saturated as far as waist.
Report 6 much blood against gate, dress soaked with blood.
Report 7 when body moved large area of congealed blood about 6 inches seen, some running towards gutter, dress covered as far as waist, also blood in area of legs.
Report 9 large quantity of blood in gutter which had run from pavement, clothing saturated with blood which appear to have run from back.

Some interesting points here, Thain uses the term running to describe the blood moving from the pavement into the gutter, he obviously does not mean it is flowing under pressure, and is therefore similar to the use of the word by Neil and Mizen, he also uses it to describe the flow of blood in Nichols clothing.

From the above we can see that there was blood in a large quantity present both on the pavement and in her clothing, in addition he says there was blood under her, but more importantly that much had gone from the pavement into the gutter, was this clear before the body was moved, and how far had it run. The extent is not recorded and Thain was involved with washing it away with Green and so probably had the best view of all the police there.

He also searched the street but found no additional blood, as in going to or from the body, reports 4,5 & 7.

Additionally he also reported just before he saw Neil he saw two men going towards Whitechapel road, so the area not as deserted as many imply reports 2 & 7.
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