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Maggyann 03-07-2010 04:27 PM

Has anyone ever wondered whether the call of 'Lipski' mentioned by witness could actually have been 'Lizzie'.
I am just pondering this as it would help make the murder of Liz more of a 'domestic' IMO.

RJM 03-07-2010 05:41 PM

Hi Maggyann,

Even if the assailant yelled 'Lizzie,' it only shows a familiarity with the victim. It doesn't necessarily point to Michael Kidney.

I wrote an article for Ripperologist magazine in 2003 that is here on the Casebook. I briefly covered the possibility that 'Lizzie' was shouted. I was not the first to suggest this possible scenario either.

Elizabeth Stride was known to many as 'Long Liz'. Schwartz was insistent, when questioned by Abberline, that he did not know who was being spoken to. If Stride's attacker was not speaking to either Schwartz or the man with the pipe then he could have been speaking to the victim, calling out 'Lizzie', instead of 'Lipski'. If that were the case, then it suggests a familiarity between Stride and her assailant. It could have been a regular client, or even her lover, Michael Kidney. (Ripperologist 45, March 2003)



Maggyann 03-07-2010 05:43 PM

Thank you for that. Much appreciated.

Suzi 03-07-2010 05:44 PM

Nice one Rob-
"Lizzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaayyyyy!!!" is slightly amusing I suppose- but if Kidney was about to do for said Lizzie (Long or not!) would he have announced it! ... I think not!!!!- Exactly- Lipski is the most likely- and that's before we get to Pipeman etc etc

Suz xxx

Hunter 03-07-2010 06:36 PM

If my memory serves me right, I believe "Fisherman" wrote a dissertation some time ago on this subject as well; giving the view that "Lizzie" was what BS man had yelled. I don't have the link, but it can be found on the dissertation page on this site.

Garza 07-14-2010 02:16 PM

Maybe someone can correct me on this but assuming Schwartz's testimony is true can we be sure that the BS man was calling Schwartz "Lipski" or the pipeman "Lipski", as far as I can tell Schwartz was not looking at the BS man when this was called.

Was he calling Liz a "Lipski"? This BS man was under the influence of alcohol, he passes past a Jewish club with a lady (Liz) outside it. In his toxification and dislike of Jews, he jostles her around a bit. Liz doesn't scream loud because she recognises him as a drunk, she would have come across many.
The BS man notices there are witnesses to the attack and shouts at them "Lipski" while pointing at Liz, meaning she is a jew and deserved to be attacked, she is nobody. Schwartz was walking away from the attack so he assumed that the BS man was directing Lipski at him.

I also think that the heavy footsteps that Mrs Mortimer heard past her house was BS man walking away form the scene.

Ah if only the pipe man testified.

Phil H 07-14-2010 09:22 PM

My own view is that Kidney killed Stride out of jealousy and rage.

He'd either followed her or tracked her down (just possibly come across her by accident). he finds her with her new fella (who'd treated her nice, given her a bit of velvet material to make up, and been with her all evening.

The new fella is Jewish (Stride is said to have worked in a Jewish household and possibly to have spoken Yiddish).

Kidney tries to drag Stride back home (out of the yard) but she resists. Her Jewish fella either retreats at Kidney's approach, or had just left Stride. He pauses appalled by what he is seeing but perhaps because he is married or needs to be discrete, he is frightened about intervening.

Kidney knows who he is as he has seen Stride and the man together. Kidney calls out "Lipski" at the man - both taunting him along the lines of "No Jew is going to have/take my woman" and bringing to mind the Lipski case of only a few months before where a man killed his lover.

No proof, just supposition, but to me it brings together and fits quite a lot of the facts in the Stride case.

Now blow me out of the water, folks!


Tom_Wescott 07-14-2010 09:46 PM

POOF! You're out of the water.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Phil H 07-14-2010 09:55 PM

And you're firing blanks!!

c.d. 07-14-2010 09:56 PM

Hi Phil,

Since you are now out of the water per Tom and now fair game -- You would have to wonder why Kidney would not flee town after having been seen by Schwartz. He has to be the prime suspect in the killing.


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