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-   -   Dutfields Yard (https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=10908)

Trevor Marriott 07-23-2018 11:56 PM

Dutfields Yard
 
I don't know if this has been posted before? But apologies if it has, but as is known the wooden gates at the entrance to the yard were closed, and this was apparently standard practice at night.

However, according to Walter Dew access could still be gained through a small wicket gate.So perhaps local prostitutes were aware of this and it gave them a quiet location away from prying eyes to take clients for a "quickie"

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Joshua Rogan 07-24-2018 02:57 AM

I'm not sure why you think that it's known the gates were closed - all the witnesses who commented said that the gates were open at the time of the murder.

richardh 07-24-2018 05:48 AM

Didn't the horse and cart just drive straight into the yard with the horse rearing back and stopping at the body?

"The body of Elizabeth Stride was later found by a man called Louis Diemschutz, who turned his horse and cart into the yard and saw Elizabeth’s body lying on the ground."

'Turned his horse & cart', but didn't step down to open the gates BEFORE turning his horse/cart into the yard.

Wickerman 07-24-2018 06:25 AM

It wasn't just Dew though, this sketch was published on the 5th Oct. - bottom left.



If you remember what Mrs Kennedy said about her Wednesday evening 'lucky escape' with a man who tried to entice her through a small doorway like that...

"They accompanied him as far as a gateway with a small door in it, but when he stepped through and left his bag on the ground, saying he would take either of them with him, a feeling of distrust seized the women."
This character should have been a Person of Interest.

Nichols body was found outside a gate, but have not been able to find if it had a wicket door in it.

Joshua Rogan 07-24-2018 06:26 AM

Quite, Richard.
In fact, in his inquest evidence (according to the Daily News) says: "Both gates were open - wide open."

Other witnesses and reports confirm this;

William West: "At the side of the house there is a passage leading into a yard, at the entrance of which there are two wooden gates. In one of them here is a little doorway. The gates are sometimes closed-in fact mostly. At times the small door in this gate is also locked. There is no particular person who does it....
Noticing the yard passage gates were open, I looked towards them....
I simply looked at the gates because they were open."

PC Lamb: "When I blew my whistle other constables came, and I had the entrance of the yard closed. This was while Dr. Blackwell was looking at the body. Before that the doors were wide open."

Edward Spooner: "As soon as Police-constable Lamb arrived, I went away, after helping him to shut the gates."

Daily News 1st Oct
"At the hour when the murderer accomplished his purpose these gates were open; indeed, according to the testimony of those living near, the entrance to the court is seldom closed."

Morris Eagle interview: "The gates were thrown wide back. In fact it is very seldom that they are closed."

Joshua Rogan 07-24-2018 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wickerman (Post 452849)
Nichols body was found outside a gate, but have not been able to find if it had a wicket door in it.

I wondered about that too, but checking the contemporary sketches on Casebook they show no wicket gate in the Buck's Row gates.

https://photos.casebook.org/displayi...?album=1&pos=9

https://photos.casebook.org/displayi...album=1&pos=10

Wickerman 07-24-2018 06:47 AM

This is the only sketch that appears to show a wicket gate.


Illustrated Police News, 8 Sept.

Wickerman 07-24-2018 06:58 AM

Eddowes was found outside a gate too, but I have never seen a sketch showing a wicket door. The gate may not have been tall enough to justify one?

Abby Normal 07-24-2018 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua Rogan (Post 452850)
Quite, Richard.
In fact, in his inquest evidence (according to the Daily News) says: "Both gates were open - wide open."

Other witnesses and reports confirm this;

William West: "At the side of the house there is a passage leading into a yard, at the entrance of which there are two wooden gates. In one of them here is a little doorway. The gates are sometimes closed-in fact mostly. At times the small door in this gate is also locked. There is no particular person who does it....
Noticing the yard passage gates were open, I looked towards them....
I simply looked at the gates because they were open."

PC Lamb: "When I blew my whistle other constables came, and I had the entrance of the yard closed. This was while Dr. Blackwell was looking at the body. Before that the doors were wide open."

Edward Spooner: "As soon as Police-constable Lamb arrived, I went away, after helping him to shut the gates."

Daily News 1st Oct
"At the hour when the murderer accomplished his purpose these gates were open; indeed, according to the testimony of those living near, the entrance to the court is seldom closed."

Morris Eagle interview: "The gates were thrown wide back. In fact it is very seldom that they are closed."

Thanks for posting these JR and Richard.
Its clear the gates were open and how the building was accessed.

Ginger 07-24-2018 02:21 PM

I would imagine that in the days and weeks after the murder, the gates were kept closed to exclude sightseers, even though they may have normally remained open.


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