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The Original Nightstalker-Unsolved

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  • #16
    Hi Greg and Abby

    Didn't realise they had this man's DNA, the Night Stalker thast is. As Greg implies he must be in his 50's or 60's by now. Considering the severity of the attacks, I'm surprised they dont perform blanket DNA testing in these cases. I know the logistics of this type of testing is enormous, and very costly, but I think it should be carried out, whatever the cost. As Greg has said it's awful when these monsters get away with murder, imagine how the relatives of those poor people must feel

    Regards

    Observer

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    • #17
      Well, first of all, the DNA was recovered from stored evidence. The last crime was in 1986, before DNA was being used to identify criminals, and the ONS had taken a break before that. I don't know when DNA was collected, nor from which batch of evidence (that is, which case), but it may have been a case from the 1970s or early 80s, that wasn't processed until 25 years later. There would be no point in doing a sweep of the area.

      The first US case to use DNA evidence, FWIW, was in 1987, which was the same year that the human genome project was first proposed. I'm not sure at what point it took a mere cheek swab to do a DNA test, but at one point, the test was more invasive, requiring a blood sample (immature blood cells have a nucleus, IIRC).

      Anyway, in the US, a person cannot be compelled to give a DNA sample unless they have already been convicted of a crime. Virginia had a law allowing people who had merely been arrested to be tested, but it was up for Supreme Court review, the last I heard. The exception in people in the military; anyone who has been in the US military since, I believe, 2001, although I may be wrong, has DNA on file.

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      • #18
        *bump*

        Been getting into this case recently, after listening to the chilling voicemail he left one of his victims. Not for the faint-hearted: https://youtu.be/jdElYnd-xMo

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        • #19
          The profile, for whatever it's worth, says he started when he was about 26 which would mean he was born around 1950. If so, he could have been a Vietnam War veteran and if not must have been deffered, drew a high number in the lottery or was judged unfit for some reason.
          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

          Stan Reid

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sdreid View Post
            The profile, for whatever it's worth, says he started when he was about 26 which would mean he was born around 1950. If so, he could have been a Vietnam War veteran and if not must have been deffered, drew a high number in the lottery or was judged unfit for some reason.
            Yes, I have a hunch that he was probably ex-military.

            One of the strangest things I read about the case is how he took his dog with him to some of the homes. Maybe it's just me that seems like a bizarre thing for a serial killer/rapist to do. It would be more of a hindrance than anything? Unless he was using it as a watchdog in case someone came into the house while he was doing his thing?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Harry D View Post
              One of the strangest things I read about the case is how he took his dog with him to some of the homes. Maybe it's just me that seems like a bizarre thing for a serial killer/rapist to do. It would be more of a hindrance than anything? Unless he was using it as a watchdog in case someone came into the house while he was doing his thing?
              .

              Yes, it was believed to be a white German Shepherd with a toe missing. I don't know how many clues the police need.
              This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

              Stan Reid

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              • #22
                Seriously. I happen to know there is no vet HIPAA like there is for humans. We regularly get cards in the mail addressed to our pets that say things like "Morgan, your fecal exam is due." I'm sure the police could have gone around to area vets inquiring about white GSDs with missing toes, and asking questions at parks and such. If the dog wasn't vaccinated, that could have been an "in." It's not a crime, but it is a violation, and some people manage to escalate the situation until it becomes a crime. It sounds like this is an easily-riled guy. If the police looked him up for not vaccinating his dog, and tried to confiscate it (not the usual course of action, but allowable by law), and were surly about it, they might get the guy shouting, and trying to grab the dog back, at which point they could arrest him for interfering with the police.

                Anything that lets them bring him in, and hold him for 24 hours is a foot in the door. A lot of major crimes are cracked on minor violations. Son of Sam was caught for getting a parking ticket, and Al Capone's original arrest was for tax evasion.

                White GSDs are around, but they are not that common, and they were even less common in the US at the time of the ONS.

                I'm really curious to what extent the police pursued this. It seems like such a promising lead.

                Does anyone know more about this?

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                • #23
                  I believe the white German Shephard with one toe missing was only deemed as a possibility. It was by no means certain such a dog was owned by the killer. I think a dog of that breed and colour was seen near a couple of the homes the criminal targetted and at only one scene a dog print with three toes was found.

                  Can someone confirm this?

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                  • #24
                    My feeling is that the ONS moved abroad when DNA testing came in and he realised that the police had his profile. He wouldn't want to risk being identified if he was picked up for some minor offence.

                    I also believe that he was ex-military, probably some kind of Special Forces, given his evident ability to select approach and exit routes, which seems beyond the skills of an average infantryman.

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                    • #25
                      Multiple personality disorder?

                      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                      Hi RC
                      I also heard that one surviving victim say that as he was terrorizing them he was walking around chanting something like "I'm going to kill them" over and over in a low, raspy,growling voice. Similar to the phone call he made to a victim in which he chanted "going to kill you" .
                      That is very spooky. I wonder if it is a sign of the guy having more than one personality? Or perhaps a way of "psyching" himself up to do the deeds.
                      I think I've seen the documentary about this case, and the voice-mail message is very chilling, indeed.

                      Given his organization, though, more likely he was a sociopath.
                      Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                      ---------------
                      Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                      ---------------

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dupplin Muir View Post
                        My feeling is that the ONS moved abroad when DNA testing came in and he realised that the police had his profile. He wouldn't want to risk being identified if he was picked up for some minor offence.

                        I also believe that he was ex-military, probably some kind of Special Forces, given his evident ability to select approach and exit routes, which seems beyond the skills of an average infantryman.

                        I dont think DNA is/was taken for a minor offence.

                        Ive been reading up on the case lately. Sure he could be special forces, he could just as likely be a guy with previous for breaking and entering, a man who had honed his "craft".

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                          That is very spooky. I wonder if it is a sign of the guy having more than one personality? Or perhaps a way of "psyching" himself up to do the deeds.
                          I think I've seen the documentary about this case, and the voice-mail message is very chilling, indeed.

                          Given his organization, though, more likely he was a sociopath.
                          Hi Pcdunn
                          Not sure about the whole split personality thing.

                          One of Gacys survivors said that the instant gacy had the handcuffs on him (the handcuff trick gacy used to employ to gain control of his victims) he changed instantly from a charming, fun friendly guy into some kind of snarling beast/ devil (or words to that effect) who started beating him and throwing him around.

                          Amazingly the guy was still able to overpower gacy, get the key from him and get the handcuffs off!

                          Serial killers are pretty much all sociopaths but I think the ones who act like ONS and Gacy have a huge amount of pent up anger as part of their deep seated motivation for killing.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

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                          • #28
                            Hi, Abby: That's interesting, about Gacy. Sort of shedding the mask, and letting out "the beast", it seems. Thanks.
                            Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                            ---------------
                            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                            ---------------

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                            • #29
                              Also known as the 'Baby Dick Killer', on account of his small manhood. Several of his victims attested to the attacker being poorly-endowed, and apparently one of his victims remained a virgin after the assault. A much more fitting moniker for this guy, in my opinion.

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                              • #30
                                This has been one of my "pet" cases for the past several years, and I do haunt a few discussion sites - glad to find another venue, particularly here.

                                Some exciting things that have come about relatively recently include the identification of background sounds in the "Gonna Kill You" call as being dialogue from the film "Breaking Up," which was airing the night of January 2, 1978, when the EAR telephoned the victim.

                                It may only be a small detail, but in a case this old and frustrating.. well, people here would surely understand how exciting that might be.

                                Again on topic of telephones -- former case detective, Richard Shelby, said during a podcast that the EAR/ONS may have been tapping his victims' phone lines, as he was proven to have done on at least one occasion. This was during the attack were it was widely publicised that EAR had "cut the phone lines" -- but he'd actually done far more than that and in this podcast Shelby confirms that there was evidence of interference with the lines that likely meant the EAR was listening in on calls.

                                Here's the podcast, rivetting stuff - if you can stand the heavy breathing of the host, which is gross:

                                http://www.blogtalkradio.com/dan-zup...chard-shelby-1

                                Also, some sad news -- Michelle NcNamara, the true crime author who in recent years had helped to bring this case to greater public attention and who made popular the EAR's new moniker, "Golden State Killer" or "GSK" has recently 'passed away in her sleep', at only 46 years old.


                                http://mashable.com/2016/04/22/miche.../#xUg.IEYtiZqD

                                Also, the long-awaited film by Cameron Cloutier, "Bird with a Broken Wing", detailing the life of EAR's last known victim, Janelle Cruz, is apparently still in production (I was wondering...).

                                Here's some recently released interviews Cloutier had with McNamara:

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cs4MjFETQA

                                Part one ^ -- links to parts 2 through six will come up will come up on the sidebar to the right.
                                Last edited by Ausgirl; 04-24-2016, 08:14 PM.

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