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The Long Island Ripper

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  • #16
    http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/i...0411183305.jpg

    A pretty good map but without annotations as to which bodies are which.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by DarkPassenger View Post
      His apparent wealth does tie in with his age - 40s I'd say.

      So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off? It does seem telling that the fancier end of Long Island is his comfort zone. Maybe he has a house in the Hamptons and it is there that he is able to kill? I reckon if indeed he's too high-class to be a seasonal worker or ranger, he must therefore use the cover of solitary hobbies and pursuits while in the Hamptons for the Summer, to engage in his murders.

      I didn't know about the payments to the hookers, so thanks for pointing it out. I need to a little more about it myself!

      So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?
      Hi, Thanks for posting the Huffington Post link. I had not read that and notice that there is an expert who thinks there is a seasonal angle to the murders.

      You ask: So why would his geographical activity be so seasonal if he is so well-off?

      Maybe the wife and kids go to visit her family in the summers -- maybe overseas?

      Maybe someone who summers in the Hamptons. Grew up there, but whose job takes him other places. I suspect there are other dumping grounds in his life that have yet to be discovered, and I would be really surprised if the Atlantic City murders are not his as well. and the Shannan Gilbert. Another thing Atlantic City has in common with Long Island is that it is a recreational destination (with the same sorts of parks and wildlife areas).

      I think you are on to something with the tie in to the parks and wildlife areas, just not sure what yet. He could be a birdwatcher, or a visiting expert in a field that the park management regularly consults with him.

      As I mentioned to you the fact that these types of natural areas hire seasonal workers might tie in. Or the areas might be selected by someone who travels in a camper (although Shannan Gilbert was taken by a driver indicating wealth to a [I] house[/I)].)

      Can you imagine how excited these girls are to get a call from someone offering so much money plus a trip out to the Hamptons -- all expenses paid of course. Since one of the victims had $900 deposited in a bank account, surely there would be a way to trace that money. Plus, I don't remember how they knew about the offer of $1500 -- maybe the victim's pimp?

      I wonder what might be found down along Chincoteague, Va., or the Outer Banks of North Carolina, or the Florida Keys.

      However, I believe we know that:

      A. He has a car or access to a vehicle (ranger could work here) -- this is because parts of the bodies from the early kills were scattered as much as 45 miles (or maybe 90 miles) apart and along deserted highways. It is my understanding that many of the seasonal workers don't take their cars with them, but use the public transportation inside the areas they work in.
      However, it is possible some of the maintenance workers, etc. might have access to vehicles, don't you think? Would a killer risk using a "company vehicle"?

      B. He has a private space or did -- this is because some of the bodies were dismembered. So he had to have somewhere to carry out that part of his work. Now that he is just dumping complete bodies, the private space is not as important as it once was.

      C. I wonder if he is a small to average size man. All the last, identified victims are tiny 100 pounds and 5 feet tall or less. An earlier victim was 5'6" and 150 pounds, then he went to the tiny women -- there's probably a reason for that.

      If the earlier victim was difficult for him and put up a good fight or nearly got away, he might have switched to smaller women who are easier to handle.

      So, this might mean that he is attracted to larger women and if he is married or dates, those women will more likely fit the model of the earlier victim.

      A divorce would work as a stressor. But wouldn't it need to be around 1996 or 93 (my memory isn't working today) instead of 2006 since that is about the age of the first body?


      You ask: "So what if this guy is still a seasonal worker on the Wildlife Reserves and suchlike, but that is actually more a hobby than a job because he's independently wealthy? Or what if his knowledge of computers and technology is because his primary - and very successful - source of income is an internet-based business?"


      That could work of course. Or he's there because of his interest in nature. With an Internet business, he could live and work anywhere and may keep returning to Long Island because it's home or he just plain likes it. Now that the bodies have been found, I really suspect he has moved on . . unless that would draw attention to him . . .

      Wonder what the authorities are finding but keeping to themselves, don't you?

      curious
      Last edited by curious; 10-24-2012, 03:23 PM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by DarkPassenger View Post
        His crimes reflect the following behaviours;
        • Selection of easy targets - sex workers - but also victims he can justifiably kill in his own personal framework of self-justification. The phone calls he made to Melissa Bathelemy's sister reflect this gleeful desire to rape and kill "whores." His misogynistic rage is tied into his sexuality, so he's an anger-fuelled sexual sadist, a true "anger-excitation" sex killer.
        • ok this makes sense to me.

          Originally posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
          ]
        • His pick-up of the victims reflect his ability to talk to and even manipulate women. He isn't an introverted loner, he's confident, even arrogant, and socially adept, a true psychopath.
        I'm not sure about this. He's making a business arrangement on Craig's List -- perhaps by e-mail?


        Originally posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
        ]
      • He disposes of the women not only by depersonalizing them (by making identification difficult in the Manorville cases), but by concealing them. His Manorville murders were found so he switched to hiding them in burlap sacks on Ocean Parkway where they won't likely be found. He doesn't care about his victims, he certainly doesn't care about them postmortem, and he doesn't care about publicity about a "serial killer on the loose." He's no missionary serial killer, not a publicity seeker; he's a control-freak sexual sadist. He likes to drive past where the bodies are and know they are there, and that's as far as it goes. Despite telling Amanda Fundeburg that he was going to "watch her rot," this expression tells us he's not necrophilic as he wouldn't have emphasised this aspect of the victim postmortem, the decomposition. He literally just disposes of them and gets his kicks while they're alive where he can humiliate, dominate and control them.
      Makes sense, but I have no expertise or study in this area, so don't know for sure.


      Originally posted by DarkPassenger;243627[LIST
      ]
    • In conclusion, he's in his 40s, a highly socially-adept
    • I'm not sure about this part. He hires hookers on Craig's List. He apparently offers really poor young women what must seem lots of money. I think some of them would go meet the devil himself for that kind of money.

      Originally posted by DarkPassenger View Post
      sexually-sadistic psychopath whose sexual kicks with the victim begin and end with torture and domination. This tells me that he has a primary sexual outlet which doubled as a facet of his need for control in his everyday life, part of his cover as functioning member of society. He's married. Or is he...?
    • What if the stressor for the more recent murders is a divorce? Such a person would be controlling, paranoid and violent in a marriage. I suspect he's had a few failed marriages
    • I think that is highly possible and perhaps got taken for a huge amount in one of the settlements. Although his victim taking what he considered HIS might be enough for him to want to kill.

      [/QUOTE]and each one has kicked off a murder spree. What if his marriage broke up in around 2006 and he somehow managed to clean up in court - maybe some kind of humiliating emotional blackmail of his ex-wife forced her to bugger the case up - which, despite pocketing him a fair amount of cash, doubled as the stressor for the 2007 - 2010 murders? [/QUOTE]

      Maybe. Or are bodies and years missing because he has been in different places?

      Very interesting work there, Dark Passenger.

      curious

      Comment


      • #19
        another thought just hit me

        As I reread my post:
        "I suspect there are other dumping grounds in his life that have yet to be discovered, and I would be really surprised if the Atlantic City murders are not his as well. and the Shannan Gilbert. Another thing Atlantic City has in common with Long Island is that it is a recreational destination (with the same sorts of parks and wildlife areas)."

        Since you know what kind of wildlife refuges and parks surround the Long Island location and the Atlantic City location, why not look for tourist destinations that duplicate those natural areas as well? Then see if there are any missing women or found bodies.

        I'm guessing he goes somewhere to bird watch, or fish or take pictures . . . whatever those areas offer. The natural areas are his cover for being in those locations. There probably should also be a fairly large populous city close enough for him to find appropriate hookers.

        You know, the Seattle area-- Vancouver -- might be good to check. You have ocean and the city. There have been lots of hookers killed in that area, Green River killer and all. I don't know about recently.

        I don't know if there is wild, overgrown area where bodies won't be found for years, but suspect there might be somewhere.

        Anyway. I think they may have the tip of the iceberg here.

        curious

        Comment


        • #20
          Hi DP and curious
          Thanks for all the info-truly interesting and bizarre case.

          Why do the authorities/and you think the killer is wealthy? Just because the women charge alot and/or he tells them he can pay them alot does not mean he actuallly has the money right? They are murdered so they never get the money and/or he takes it back. Am I missing something here?

          Also, Re the seasonal worker: Teachers and school administrators/staff are off summers and many spend there free summers at the beach.

          Also, i think it may be wise to follow the burlap bag clue. Its not a common type material/bag. I know nurseries (trees/plants/flower shops) and therefore also Landscaping businesses use burlap sacks.

          Perhaps this guy works at a school in NY/NJ area in the non summer months and during the summer months has a place on LI where he does landscaping(also a "seasonal" job).
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #21
            Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
            Hi DP and curious
            Thanks for all the info-truly interesting and bizarre case.

            Why do the authorities/and you think the killer is wealthy? Just because the women charge alot and/or he tells them he can pay them alot does not mean he actuallly has the money right? They are murdered so they never get the money and/or he takes it back. Am I missing something here?

            Also, Re the seasonal worker: Teachers and school administrators/staff are off summers and many spend there free summers at the beach.

            Also, i think it may be wise to follow the burlap bag clue. Its not a common type material/bag. I know nurseries (trees/plants/flower shops) and therefore also Landscaping businesses use burlap sacks.

            Perhaps this guy works at a school in NY/NJ area in the non summer months and during the summer months has a place on LI where he does landscaping(also a "seasonal" job).
            Hi, Abby,
            Love the Landscaper angle! And an owner of some landscaping businesses -- plural might have the money.

            And teachers and other seasonal workers to add to the list! great.

            As for being wealthy -- One of the women actually had $900 put into her bank account, if I recall correctly.

            Here it is:
            http://www.altereddimensions.net/cri...ialKiller.aspx

            On the night that Barthelemy disappeared, she had met with a client, deposited $900 in her bank account, and attempted to call an old boyfriend who did not answer his phone. She then checked her voicemail from two motels in Massepequa (a Budget Inn and a Best Western). She then left the motel for a appointment with a client. Her pimp had offered her a ride but she declined the offer. Barthelemy was never seen again."

            So, there was actual money.

            Then:

            One week after her disappearance, Milissa’s sister, Amanda Barthelemy, began receiving a series of mocking phone calls that were placed from her missing sister’s cell phone. The first calls occurred on July 16, July 19, and July 23. The caller referred to Barthelemy as a “whore” and a horrible, nasty person. The calls were coarsely traced and deteremined to originate from midtown Manhattan in the Madison Square Garden and Times Square areas of town. Police rushed to the scene after each call but the caller kept each communication under 3 minutes so the exact location could not be pinpointed. Surveillance video of the area where the calls came from showed hundreds of people milling around, many with phones pressed to their ears. The mocking calls continued for five weeks.

            Perhaps the follow up with the family -- the only time that appears to have occurred -- was his fury at losing the money????

            Is that a possibility?

            Which might indicate he really did not have the money to lose. Right?

            Another victim was offered $1,500.

            "On the night that she disappeared, Amber Costello went to meet a stranger who had seen her advertisement on Craigslist. The customer had called her several times and had offered her $1,500 for her services."


            Also from the above website:
            "Police also think the killer is a white male who is familiar with the South Shore of Long Island (likely a long-time resident of the area). And given the costs he was willing to pay for the escort services, they believe there is a high likelihood that the Long Island Serial Killer is an upper class citizen in a high income bracket."

            However, Abby, as you pointed out, it is not likely that money has changed hands that often. Or did it?

            Also, one of the early victims was a prostitute from Washington DC -- now how did that happen?

            I like the burlap thought, because originally, the bodies were wrapped in plastic. However, once the killer saw he could go years and the bodies not be discovered, he switched to burlap.

            why?

            perhaps he had easy access to burlap.

            Interesting.

            curious

            P.S. this post is from yesterday, Oct. 23, 2012:

            http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
            Last edited by curious; 10-24-2012, 06:57 PM.

            Comment


            • #22
              Dark Passenger:
              This website links the two dump grounds to one organization that has access to burlap and leaders with abuse in their backgrounds:

              http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter

              Comment


              • #23
                Originally posted by curious View Post
                I like the burlap thought, because originally, the bodies were wrapped in plastic. However, once the killer saw he could go years and the bodies not be discovered, he switched to burlap.

                why?

                perhaps he had easy access to burlap.

                Interesting.

                curious

                P.S. this post is from yesterday, Oct. 23, 2012:

                http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
                Originally posted by curious View Post
                Dark Passenger:
                This website links the two dump grounds to one organization that has access to burlap and leaders with abuse in their backgrounds:

                http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/12...medium=twitter
                The Hunting Angle

                http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=161555

                This is the "source" thread if you will.

                OMG

                So now there is a VERY credible argument which ties in with the "wildlife" angle I suggested, and that is related to duck and wildfowl shooting? Having read just page one I think there's one hell of an argument to suggest the wildlife link could indeed be that his familiarity with dump sites is due to his involvement in wildfowl and bird hunting. I said before he might have a solitary hobby which is seasonal and involves wildlife - this pretty much nails it.

                So what if the killer is indeed a wildfowl hunter - and therefore, the websleuths people argue, possibly a member of the South Shore Wildfowlers Association - and that explains this wildlife link?

                Now all we need to do is explain his seasonality.

                So two questions still remain; where are all the other bodies, and how does he share his time, and where, the rest of the year?
                The logic behind his kills, and the hunting angle, suggests he has a major base on Long Island, a second home or a work property only he has access to, most likely though it is a house. He spends June - February there, nine months of the year. I doubt such a painfully solitary man would be the killer but it raises a question; what if he started dumping bodies on Ocean Parkway because a private "graveyard" he'd been using was full? Maybe the murders between 1996 and 2000 are in his back yard.

                The Evolution of his Method

                He tries to dispose of Jane Doe 4 in 1996 by throwing her legs, wrapped in plastic, into the Great South Bay, and dumping more parts of her on Gilgo Beach, a Joel Rifkin style "spreading" of the body parts. The legs turn up, so he changes tactics and buries them closer to home. By 2000, he's run out of room so dumps remains in Manorville, half-a-mile into the thicket. But by 2003 the access has changed so Jessica Taylor gets dumped by the roadside. Next, he decides to switch to dumping victims in the brush at Ocean Parkway, but they too end up being found in 2010.

                The early victims (1996 - 2000) may just be buried in his back yard or similar. And as for other missing victims among his known active period (2000 - 2010), they are probably buried in similar deposition sites to the Ocean Parkway victims, on Long Island. But that doesn't explain why he's dumping Summer victims in that particular spot, or why Jessica Taylor was a Summer victim.

                But it does seem that he has a two-phase killing spree; hidden and overt, and the overt killings actually, on reflection, seem more a desperate hunt for places to hide bodies. So where are the 2003 - 2007 bodies? From 2007 - 2010 he's hiding them on Ocean Parkway, after having tried and failed to use Manorville as a dumping ground from 2000 - 2003.

                A New Theory

                By now you'll have guessed how "stream-of-consciousness" this post is, but bear with me. I have a new theory. What if, and it is radical, he really is killing just once or twice a year? In the Spring or Summer he takes some time and carries out his fantasies, before the hunting season starts?

                Here's his apparent sequence of deposition site choice;

                1996 - 2000 - Possible private "graveyard" (4+ victims)
                2000 - 2003 - Short lived Manorville deposition site (3+ victims)
                2003 - 2010 - Ocean Parkway, Gilgo Beach and a missing deposition site (7+ victims)

                The fact that serial killers accelerate their kills and devolve over time ties into this. His 2007 - 2010 kills were mainly whole, in burlap sacks and dumped together, and on average there were more in the 2003 - 2010 timespan than just one a year. He's certainly devolving, another sign he's in his 40s.

                What I'm suggesting is actually that his pattern of killing is indeed controlled to some extent and that his erratic and adaptive choice of deposition sites might be fooling us. The seasonality and missing bodies might just be a red herring, telling us he moves around when in fact he's a full-time Long Islander.
                It also suggests there are two deposition sites to find - the missing 2003 - 2007 site, and his private 1996 - 2000 graveyard. I suspect the missing "overt" dump site is probably what he's currently using now that Ocean Parkway and Gilgo Beach are not available.

                Comment


                • #24
                  Something just occurred to me.
                  10 victims found on Ocean Parkway and Gilgo Beach don't tally with the 7 suggested above in my "one-a-year" pattern? Well discount John Doe 1 and Jane Doe 2, as well as the remains of Jane Doe 4, and you have 7 victims! John Doe 1 was a major mistake and he probably killed a genuine victim soon after to make up for it. Jane Doe 2 was a child brought by Jane Doe 3 to the killer's house out of sheer necessity. Parts of 1996 victim Jane Doe 4 were also found and were not part of this latter deposition stage.

                  Another thing; he could still be employed as a park ranger on Long Island, explaining his law-enforcement connection.
                  Last edited by DarkPassenger; 10-24-2012, 11:05 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Originally posted by DarkPassenger View Post
                    The Hunting Angle

                    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=161555

                    This is the "source" thread if you will.

                    OMG

                    So now there is a VERY credible argument which ties in with the "wildlife" angle I suggested, and that is related to duck and wildfowl shooting? Having read just page one I think there's one hell of an argument to suggest the wildlife link could indeed be that his familiarity with dump sites is due to his involvement in wildfowl and bird hunting. I said before he might have a solitary hobby which is seasonal and involves wildlife - this pretty much nails it.

                    So what if the killer is indeed a wildfowl hunter - and therefore, the websleuths people argue, possibly a member of the South Shore Wildfowlers Association - and that explains this wildlife link?

                    Now all we need to do is explain his seasonality.
                    Very interesting, no doubt about it. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

                    The link between that club and a town just 35 miles from Atlantic City the same year as the deaths occurred there is very suggestive, isn't it?

                    The seasonality is of the women who have been found -- not necessarily his only victims, right?

                    And the women went missing from Memorial Day to Labor Day, or apparently when there is no hunting. ?Maybe because of breeding season?? So they were dumped in an area where the hunters would not be out and about. Would that be how it worked?

                    Maybe the hunting was killing enough for him during season, then when he could not hunt, he killed women. Is that possible?

                    Not sure that makes sense.

                    And not sure why he appears to have killed just during the summer months.

                    Again, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

                    curious

                    Comment


                    • #26
                      well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?

                      Comment


                      • #27
                        Originally posted by curious View Post
                        The seasonality is of the women who have been found -- not necessarily his only victims, right?
                        And the women went missing from Memorial Day to Labor Day, or apparently when there is no hunting. ?Maybe because of breeding season?? So they were dumped in an area where the hunters would not be out and about. Would that be how it worked?
                        Maybe the hunting was killing enough for him during season, then when he could not hunt, he killed women. Is that possible?
                        Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
                        well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?
                        Well, I was, as am sure most people are, thinking these Summer victims were just the ones we'd found and victims from the rest of the year were elsewhere. But having reconsidered it, I think it is entirely possible he is killing only once or twice per year. During 2010 he killed twice but look at the dates; 6th June 2010 and 2nd September 2010 - still just over the Summer. And since we can expect the killer to escalate maybe this is evidence of escalation but still within his pattern of killing in the Summer.

                        I always considered such a pattern for a serial killer unlikely until I wrote about Allan Grimson, a British serial killer who killed twice , get this - on the same day on subsequent years! 12th December 1997 and 12th December 1998. It gets creepier; the only other murder he's admitted to, but not charged with, is a missing sailor who vanished on, wait for it...12th December, this time in 1986. If he stuck to his pattern he'll have over a dozen victims.

                        While I think it's clear the LISK (Long Island Serial Killer) isn't doing quite the same thing, I do think he has a "hunting season" for women and limits himself as best he can to just one or, in later years, two a year. Having run the numbers in my last post, I suspect there will be two deposition sites on Long Island waiting to be found - one with at least four bodies buried there, and another similar to the Ocean Parkway site, with at least a few more.

                        Comment


                        • #28
                          Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes View Post
                          well if that is the case where does he use during the other seasons?
                          Hi,
                          We have discussed that perhaps the killer is on Long Island only during the summer and has killing fields and dumping grounds in different, probably undiscovered, areas.

                          One of the thoughts about the killer is that he is in a high income bracket, so that would allow for travel.

                          The information about the duck hunting club appears to be new and speculation, just as our best guesses on this thread are.

                          We're just discussing possibilities.

                          curious

                          Comment


                          • #29
                            Can I just say that websleuths link is addictive

                            They're saying that SSWA activities are linked to both deposition sites and activities which seem to be linked to the killer; the use of the term "half-breed" in the phone call to Amanda Funderberg relates to dog-breeding, while the dismemberment method used on the victims relates to how you'd chop up a duck. Also, beheaded birds were found in Manorville and in a bag near the Ocean Parkway dump site, and the SSWA just happened to be in Atlantic City in September 2006, right before the Black Horse Pike prostitute murders. Burlap is also used by duck hunters they say. Crikey.

                            I think, whether the SSWA is his choice of club or not, the killer is most definitely a duck and wildfowl hunter. And I think Summer is his private hooker-hunting-season and Winter his public bird-hunting-season.

                            Comment


                            • #30
                              http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...1.2541830?qr=1
                              Finally, a decent map!

                              Comment

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