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The Reid Scale: Classic Unsolved Murder Cases

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  • #16
    I understand that position Michael but I couldn't quite put him on the same level with cases that don't even have a suspect/candidate.
    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

    Stan Reid

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    • #17
      It initially surprised me that Level 4 was the tier where I had the most difficulty coming up with examples. I guess there aren't that many cases where the investigators don't at least have a person or persons of interest. Before, I hadn't given it any thought.
      This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

      Stan Reid

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi Stan,

        Good stuff and a bloody good idea! But:

        Level 1: Cases where there is a standing conviction but some doubt about it (James Hanratty) or cases where there is no conviction but where there is little doubt regarding the perpetrator (Bella Kiss).
        Hanratty I'm still arguing about (and probably will until I go tits up), but would you include Hauptmann in your Level 1? For ages I thought Hauptmann had been stitched up, but now I'm not so sure. As little seems to have been written recently about the Lindberg Kidnap Case, what's the current thinking in the USA?

        Cheers,

        Graham
        We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

        Comment


        • #19
          Hi Graham,

          Yes, I think I would put Hauptmann at Level 1 but I'm sure some would prefer to put him at 0. Personally, I think he was likely involved although not necessarily directly.
          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

          Stan Reid

          Comment


          • #20
            Hi Stan,

            Maybe this is off-thread, but my take on the Lindberg Kidnap was that Fish was the brains behind the thing, and Hauptmann was the 'leg-man' who got it slightly wrong...

            It's been some time since I read up on this case (Ludovic Kennedy's great book being the last) so can you point me towards some more modern interpretations?

            Cheers,

            Graham
            We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

            Comment


            • #21
              Hi Stan and Graham,

              I do think Hauptmann was involved, but certainly not alone. Can you recall the name of the suspicious fellow who injected himself in the case and later wrote a book? Some suggested he was involved. I published an article with a little theory of my own. That man (whose blasted name skips me!) was an authority on symbols and their meanings. The ransom letters were all signed with a Vesica Pisces, which as you probably know, means 'fish'. Hauptmann's alleged accomplice was Isador Fisch. Unfortunately, Isador relocated out of the country and died before Hauptmann was caught. I wonder if Fisch wasn't being set up as a fall guy before he died and rendered the point moot?

              Yours truly,

              Tom Wescott

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by sdreid View Post

                Level 1: Cases where there is a standing conviction but some doubt about it (James Hanratty) or cases where there is no conviction but where there is little doubt regarding the perpetrator (Bella Kiss).

                Level 2: Cases where there is no standing conviction but where there is a better than even chance that one suspect did it (Lizzie Borden).
                Level 2: Cases where there is no standing conviction but where there is a somewhat better than even chance that one perpetrator did it.

                Upon review, I thought I should add one word to Level 2 in order to further differentiate it from Level 1 (second category).
                This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                Stan Reid

                Comment


                • #23
                  Graham - I'm not sure I can help you much. There was that movie Crime of the Century but I don't recall if it was based on a book. I believe the film left the Fisch question up in the air. The movie was pretty good in my view.
                  This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                  Stan Reid

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Tom - All I can think of is Jafsie and the guy who tried to claim he was in on the crime then was charged with fraud, I think.

                    There was also the mysterious J. J. Faulkner who turned in a large sum of ransom money but was never identified.
                    This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                    Stan Reid

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Hi Stan, Jafsie is the guy I was referring to. Thanks. What are your thoughts on his involvement?

                      Yours truly,

                      Tom Wescott

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi Tom,

                        Do you mean Dr J F Condon, otherwise known as Jafsie? He wrote a crap book called Jafsie Tells All. For some reason that escapes me, Lindbergh seemed to trust this silly old fart, who claimed he met the kidnapper and/or murderer at a cemetery in the Bronx.

                        I don't think it was so much a case of Fish (Fisch?) 'relocating', as of getting the hell out of the USA while the going was good. He conveniently died in Germany before he could be hauled in for further questioning.

                        Personally, I think the fact that it was proved that Hauptmann bought gas with the marked bonds, as were provided by Lindbergh as part of the ransom deal, sealed his fate. I am 99% sure that Hauptmann killed the child, but whether intentionally or accidentally, I can't say.

                        This seems to be a 'cold case' these days...

                        Cheers,

                        Graham.
                        We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Condon could have been connected but I tend to think not.

                          Gaston Means and John Curtis both tried to fraudulently shake down Lindbergh for ransom money.
                          This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                          Stan Reid

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Stan,

                            I don't think Condon was anything to do with the crime - he just kind of cottoned on and wanted to be important.

                            The way Lindbergh handled the thing always seemed weird to me - he seemed to trust silly old Condon more than the police and the FBI. I also get the impression that a lot of important evidence kind of went missing....

                            Graham
                            We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by sdreid View Post
                              Level 2: Cases where there is no standing conviction but where there is a somewhat better than even chance that one perpetrator did it.
                              Level 2: Cases where there is no standing conviction but where there is a somewhat better than even chance that one suspect did it.

                              That's what I meant to say.

                              Note: "one suspect" could also be one pair of suspects or one group of suspects
                              This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                              Stan Reid

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Graham - Yes, that's my best take on Condon too.
                                This my opinion and to the best of my knowledge, that is, if I'm not joking.

                                Stan Reid

                                Comment

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