The Zodiac Killer

[MayBea]

All the new theories involve some type of "funny business" - wife having an affair with a judge and the judge halting investigation into her husband (Grant), a ex-wife marrying a Zodiac investigator (Van Best), etc., which you would expect after four decades with no solution. I expect the answer to lie somewhere in that open vein of outside thinking even if the authors make glaring errors like Shawlgate.

http://blog.sfgate.com/crime/2014/05...l-shocks-cops/

[MayBea]

There's a lot of antagonism toward the author and his suspect although there's no official announcement of the suspect being eliminated specifically because of the fingerprints or DNA.

Admittedly, my interest in the Lafferty suspect is on account of the similarity to the Maybrick story - a 50 year old whose wife committed adultery.

[MayBea]

What you say about the evidence is true, Batman, unless, of course, there was more than one person involved.

But if you believe in the 'eliminated' suspects, you do have to believe there was either more than one killer (not completely out of the question) or the evidence was mishandled, misinterpreted, faked, or misused in some way(unlikely).

The Zodiac team theory doesn't look good anymore to me. That's what makes me give up on my 'eliminated' suspect.

Here's the preview of the Bill Grant Zodiac book by Lafferty. He claims he made his own tentative and unofficial positive match of his suspect's fingerprint with ones found at Lake Beryessa.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=QbF...page&q&f=false

[Batman]

The Zodiac has left handwriting, fingerprints (partial) and DNA (partial). I would think any suggested suspects would have to match these. If a suspect doesn't match these, then its simply not the right person or forensics has made serious errors... but it means forensics would have to make errors with the fingerprints and the DNA and the handwriting (all 3) which is unlikely.

[MayBea]

I didn't know he was a suspect either until I started searching for the name Richard, and he's really not officially a suspect.

I also believe Mageau's memory of the name "Richard" could be true, although it was not previously mentioned. There are or were two official suspects named Richard.

The first definitive naming of RH as a suspect came in 2008, one year after the documentary was made. (St. Brett, The Front Row Forum http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/ar.../t-198976.html)

Hoffman clearly states in the documentary that he was on plain-clothes duty looking for juvenile offenders, which I assume also means he was in an unmarked car. So there is no question of him having to change into his uniform and get back into his patrol car as it was assumed when his name came up on zodiackiller.com in 2003.

[barnflatwyngarde]

A great documentary full of great interviews with police, dispatch officers, victims, etc. As you say, smashing!

Note: Surviving victim, Mageau, says he recalls Ferrin say the guy in the other car was named Richard.
The R.O. (Responsible Officer) on the scene was Richard Hoffman, as seen in the film, and it turns out he is also a suspect, at least online. Ferrin was known to date police officers.
http://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMy...hoffman_match/

Thanks for this Maybea.
I didn't know about the, police officer being a suspect.

This what, I love about the Forums, new facts about aspects of the case(s) that cause you reconsider your position.

Thanks again.

[MayBea]

Yeah that was a smashing documentary.
I found a link to the full documentary on Youtube (attached)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys

A great documentary full of great interviews with police, dispatch officers, victims, etc. As you say, smashing!

Note: Surviving victim, Mageau, says he recalls Ferrin say the guy in the other car was named Richard.
The R.O. (Responsible Officer) on the scene was Richard Hoffman, as seen in the film, and it turns out he is also a suspect, at least online. Ferrin was known to date police officers.
http://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMy...hoffman_match/

[barnflatwyngarde]

"Outrage as Scots celebrate win by watching serial killer doc."

I neglected to say that I would have a beer in my hand for both viewings.

Some people call it social stereotyping, it is in fact the call of the genes.

[Robert]

"Outrage as Scots celebrate win by watching serial killer doc."

[barnflatwyngarde]

I haven't read all the literature but I agree with your sentiments. Ever since getting interested in JtR I have had a deep suspicion of almost anything I read about serial killers. Famous cases such as The Zodiac are especially poorly served by the book industry. Though it has to be said This is the Zodiac Speaking is probably the greatest documentary on any serial killer or true crime.

Yeah that was a smashing documentary.
I found a link to the full documentary on Youtube (attached)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsbZwys

Will watch it tomorrow after we stuff Wales at Murrayfield.

[jason_c]

I am amazed that there has never been a book written on the Zodiac case that approached it from an an evidence based approach.

The Graysmith books run so fast and loose with the facts that they are utterly useless.

After that we have a plethora of books pushing a particular theory, normally along the lines of "my father did it" or a bonkers solution based on the deciphering of the codes used in the letters.

This has obvious resonance with the Ripper case, but at least we had Rumbelow, Sugden, Begg et al.

Come on PB, why not have a go at the Zodiac!

I would do it myself, but I've got a Golden Retriever.

The hairs!
The hairs!

I haven't read all the literature but I agree with your sentiments. Ever since getting interested in JtR I have had a deep suspicion of almost anything I read about serial killers. Famous cases such as The Zodiac are especially poorly served by the book industry. Though it has to be said This is the Zodiac Speaking is probably the greatest documentary on any serial killer or true crime.

[barnflatwyngarde]

I am amazed that there has never been a book written on the Zodiac case that approached it from an an evidence based approach.

The Graysmith books run so fast and loose with the facts that they are utterly useless.

After that we have a plethora of books pushing a particular theory, normally along the lines of "my father did it" or a bonkers solution based on the deciphering of the codes used in the letters.

This has obvious resonance with the Ripper case, but at least we had Rumbelow, Sugden, Begg et al.

Come on PB, why not have a go at the Zodiac!

I would do it myself, but I've got a Golden Retriever.

The hairs!
The hairs!

[Harry D]

I have tended to give stories like this one a LOT more credence since I learned of the Scott Lee Kimball fiasco. Just some mind-blowingly bad/corrupt decisions all round, and Kimball got to commit another couple of murders while roaming free as an "informer"- which appears to be perfectly fine with all official parties involved. Except, when it became public knowledge.

When the police put out an APB for a black guy after the Stine murder, it does make you wonder.

[MayBea]

I just went back to check Zodiac Unmasked and Graysmith hardly even mentions Bill Grant, even though he gave Grant a full chapter in his first book, as the first Zodiac suspect.

All he says in Unmasked is that the patrolman Lafferty has his own suspect from Fairfield and that there was a copycat Zodiac letter writer from Fairfield. It's as if his first book didn't even exist.

Lafferty does say that Grant's handwriting and, more significantly, fingerprints didn't match but, if there's a cover-up, then you might expect evidence to be doctored.

[MayBea]

Oddly, the original police sketch, after Stine I believe, looks nothing like Allen...

Kathleen John's description doesn't match either - nose "not smallish", acne scars on chin, etc. I agree completely about the Stine composite and that's why I had to go with multiple Zodiacs.

Zodiac Unmasked gave me that impression but Graysmith's Zodiac gives me the impression of a lone wolf. That's why I think I'm ready to move on from Allen.

The Black Dahlia has to give even more credence to the notion of cover-ups.