The Christie Case

[Honest John]

Hot off the press: the publishers want to publish in October 2012 not in 2013 as previously indicated, so expect the book earlier than planned - not a huge problem as it is virtually ready anyway; just one final read through required.

[contrafib]

I think your last point is the reason why this and other forums keep going, just as with Jack The Ripper. Nevertheless, i think your book will surprise many who are very entrenched in the rather set in stone accepted details of the case. I know that there were one or more programmes about the case made in the 60's, when Evans was posthumously pardoned (for the murder of his daughter, anyway) and the case was back in the news, but have any of these survived? There was rare footage of Michael Parkinson outside Rillington Place on the BBC website's 'on this day' website, but this has since been replaced with an audio clip of Evans's mother. Shame we never heard from Hookway, Lucy Endecott, Joan Vincent etc.., too late now i suppose.

[Honest John]

I am sorry I did not properly answer all your query earlier on. Brabin states that when Kennedy was conducting his very valuable interviews with people in 1959-60 he spoke to Robert Hookway and it was he who claimed Beryl was possibly having an affair with Christie. Brabin doubts this and Kennedy doesn't include it in his book. It seems unlikely to me. Was Christie impotent? Quite possibly he was, but his wife was unable to conceive with her other known sexual partner, so possibly not. There is much about this case that we'll never know for sure - perhaps this is one of its fascinations.

[contrafib]

Nice to hear from you, Dr Oates and I look forward to your book immensely. Is it scheduled for 2013 still? I heard on the grapevine that it is being held to coincide with the anniversary of Christie's execution.

[Honest John]

Thank you for the comments about the forthcoming book. I hope it will live up to expectations, though naturally some people will not agree on my take on the Evans business. However, the book is not really about that. The book aims to be a biography of Christie and so expect more insights into both him, his family and his victims. The reason for the book lies in my researches into the Uxbridge court hearings of 1924/1933, which I looked into last year (I live nearby, so thought it worth a look). I then found that the traditional accounts of these were wrong and then wondered how much else was incorrect - quite a lot, and this can be found in most books from Kennedy to Eddowes junior. So I asked a publisher if they would be interested in yet another book on the topic, being quite prepared for a 'no thank you'. Fortunately this was not the case - had it been, I would still have done some additional research. Unlike others, I have looked at far more original material, such as census returns, newspapers from Halifax and elsewhere, prison and magistrates' court records, as well as the mass of documentation at Kew, and the useful accounts by Camps, Brabin, Jesse-Tennyson and Maxwell (who wrote the best book to date on the topic, in my opinion). I even found a copy of Christie's notes which Procter used in his Sunday Pictorial articles.

Those interested in coincidences might like to note that I was brought up in a small town near Halifax, had one brother, was good at school, but not then with girls, went to London aged 24, am married and live (in west London) next door to a young couple with one daughter and they often argue. I have been in the Scouts and once sang in the choir and have a great interest and knowledge of 10 Rillington Place.

[Honest John]

Greetings one and all!

There's quite a lot I would like to say about the Christie business; much of it will appear in my book in 2013, so I feel shy of revealing too much. Has anyone read A House to Remember? I have it on order, and it will be interesting to see how the author makes her case, which is presumably along the lines of John Eddowes. However, the first three pages contain a handful of errors of fact/gaps in the author's knowledge.

I would beware of Hume's comments. I feel it unlikely Christie had an affair with Beryl and certainly not at Evans' contrivance or knowledge. Recall how he reacted to his wife's flirtation with a man at work.

Yes, I know who the woman was whom Christie had an affair with - her husband was an RAF man, not a soldier, and the affair did not end until after the war - not in 1943 as imagined by Kennedy and so not a spur to the Ruth Fuerst murder. Incidentally, does anyone else think it is possible that Dora Lloyd was Christie's first victim? The killer's identity is similar to Christie's, but then it would fit thousands of other men and also I don't think Christie wore glasses until 1937, or possibly later.

[contrafib]

I've heard that Evans said that, to the prisoner he was on remand with (was it Hume?). Also, i read somewhere that Christie was having an affair with Beryl (even though he was impotent?!) with Evans's consent. What a weird situation they were all in, if some of it was true.

[Sherlock]

I would probably suggest the Furneaux book, which suggests that the two men worked together, with Evans murdering Beryl and Christie murdering Geraldine.

Interestingly, the Brabin enquiry reached the same conclusion in 1966.

I think I also read somewhere that Evans also told someone that he had been present while Christie killed the child, but I can't remember where.

[contrafib]

Sherlock (or anyone else),
I've found the following books available on abebooks.co.uk:

Two Stranglers of Rillington Place (Furneaux)
Trials of Evans and Christie (Jesse)
The Crimes at Rillington Place: A Novelist's Reconstruction (Chance)
The Man on Your Conscience (Eddowes)
Murder With A Difference (Lefebure)


I think you've probably read most or all of these. Any you'd particularly recommend, particularly to get a perspective other than Ludo Kennedy/John Eddowes/Brabin??

[contrafib]

It'll surely be a fascinating book. I wonder if Dr Oates has ever been alerted to this forum. He's probably busy, i imagine!

I really need to read the Furneaux book and the others but it's hard to find them and they often cost 50 pounds or more.

[Sherlock]

Of course, Ludovic Kennedy considered in "10 Rillington Place" that the severe beating Christie received at the hands of the soldier with whose wife he was having the affair while working at Harrow Road Police Station was the catalyst which caused him to commit his first known murder, that of Ruth Fuerst in 1943. It may well be that Christie had been working up to this climactic event for many years, and his fight with the soldier was the spark which caused the explosion, so to speak.

I wonder if Dr Oates will succeed in discovering the name of the lady with whom Christie was having the affair? According to Rupert Furneaux in "The Two Stranglers of Rillington Place", Christie made a scene in court when he was called to attend the divorce hearing as co-respondent as a result of the affair. Perhaps Dr Oates will be able to research the court records of the period and make known the full details of the divorce proceedings in which Christie was involved for the first time.

[contrafib]

On the subject of possible other Christie murders, i imagine the chaos and confusion of the War, and the fact that technology was primitive compared to now means that there would surely have been opportunities for Christie to commit 'unsolved murders'. I'm not sure serial killers have to start early though. Perhaps they usually do but Christie seems never to have really matured and i think it may have happened as a gradual build-up of tension and rage which perhaps one day exploded without Christie really expecting it. I think he started to plan from Muriel Eady onwards.

[contrafib]

I think Dr Oates' book will be an incredible read when it is published. Apparently, it is scheduled for 2013 to roughly coincide with the 60th anniversary of Christie's execution. I imagine that we will know more about Christie than we ever have, but in my opinion it's unlikely i think that the book will shed any more significant light on the Evans-Christie case. I wonder if Dr Oates will offer his own opinion on it in his book.

On a different note, i read on a website that there is still an original wall existing at the site of 10 Rillington Place, but the Pathe demolition footage on youtube doesn't seem to show anything being left of the buildings. DO we know for sure either way??

[Sherlock]

Yes, I believe I did see the programme on Christie on the "To Kill and Kill Again" series and I remember the lady speaking about her encounter with him while he was serving as a Special Constable. I think a book of the series was also published, which I believe was written by Martin Fido.

I certainly think it not impossible that Christie committed murders outside 10 Rillington Place, but it will never be known for sure whether this was the case. I also think it quite possible that many killings went unsolved before and after World War II, and also during it.

It certainly seems odd that Christie's first known murder took place when he was in his mid forties, when most serial killers seem to begin at a much younger age. I believe it is also fairly unusual for serial killers to have long gaps between their killings, such as Christie apparently did between 1944 and 1953, or between 1944 and 1949 and subsequently 1949 and 1953 if one considers him responsible for the murders of Geraldine and Beryl Evans in
1949.

I remember that Michael Eddowes (son of John Eddowes) stated in "The Man on Your Conscience" published in 1955 that it might be worthwhile for the police to investigate whether Christie might have had any connection with any other unsolved murders or disappearances of women known to them at the time. If this was done at any point before or after Christie's execution in 1953 the results have never been made public as far as I know.

Interestingly, Neil Root states in "Frenzy" that he was unable to gain access to all the material concerning Neville Heath in the Public Record Office, some of which was still classified, and he speculated on whether this might indicate that Heath was still suspected of committing another murder or murders. On the other hand, there did not appear to be any such restriction on the material held in relation to Christie.

Do any historians know of any unsolved crimes in the London area between approximately 1922 and 1953 with which Christie might possibly have been connected? It must be remembered that Christie apparently lived at several addresses in different areas of London prior to his arrival at 10 Rillington Place in 1937, although the researches of Dr Jonathan Oates are beginning to shed some light on his movements. However, there must be a good deal about his activities at this time which is still unknown.

[contrafib]

Yes, i remember hearing about the Sunday Pictorial's role. I think they secured Christie good treatment as well while awaiting trial.
Have you seen the programme about Christie in the 'to kill and kill again' series, first broadcast on ITV about 10 years ago. Another of Christie's near-victims, a woman called Peggy Baker, was on the programme talking for the first time about her lucky escape, which happened while Christie was a reserve policemen. He saw her looking at property, told her the area she was searching in was a bad area and offered her an alternative. Luckily for her, she had to work and missed the appointment.
As we know, there is no direct evidence that Christie killed anyone between 1944 and 1949 at least, and then between 1949 and 1952. Do they seem like long 'latent periods'? Of course, those who believe he killed the Evans mother and daughter have an even stronger case if you consider the length of the latent period without those murders. I wonder many things: whether many killings went unsolved in those days, whether Christie ever killed outside Rillington Place and whether he was a police informant who was protected (up to a point) from justice, as John Eddowes suggested in his book?