The Christie Case

[Sherlock]

Hello Honest John,

That is a good point. Norman Rae apparently arranged to meet Christie outside Wood Green town hall in north-east London at 1.30am on 30th March 1953, but the latter was arrested by PC Thomas Ledger near Putney Bridge on the south bank of the Thames shortly after 9am on 31st March.

If Christie was indeed at Wood Green in the early hours of the previous morning I suppose it is not impossible that he could have walked to Putney Bridge in the course of the following 32 hours. Alternatively, he could have used public transport for all or part of the journey if he had any money left with which to do so. However, it is also possible that the rustling in the bushes heard by Rae when the policeman passed by at Wood Green was not made by Christie at all, and that he was nowhere near the area at the time. Rae did not claim to have actually seen Christie at their rendez-vous, although it is not impossible that he did speak to him on the telephone to arrange a meeting.

It never seems to have been determined exactly where Christie got to between the time that Christie left Rowton House and his arrest at Putney Bridge, although Maxwell states in The Christie Case that he may have spent one of his final three nights of freedom on waste land in Hammersmith and two in a partly-built block of flats in Putney, and that he had also tried to scrounge twopence for a cup of tea from a man in Putney.

If this was the case it would seem to suggest that Christie was not in the vicinity of Wood Green in the days immediately prior to his arrest.

[Sherlock]

Concerning Joan Vincent, I vaguely remember reading somewhere that she later suffered from depression which required hospital treatment. However, I cannot recall the source.

[Sherlock]

My impression is that Timothy Evans was genuinely fond of his little daughter Geraldine, which could also militate against the possibility of him murdering her. Moreover, he appeared to sincerely believe Christie's story of her being adopted by a childless couple in East Acton.

Unfortunately, the real truth of the matter will never now be known.

[Sherlock]

Hello again Limehouse

And it also ought to be remembered that as far as is known there is no evidence of Timothy Evans having harmed his daughter in any way before her death. Indeed, one gets the impression that he was fonder of her than he was of his wife!!

[Sherlock]

Hi Limehouse

Of course, that is a very fair point. The mere fact that Christie appeared to be fond of children does not by itself mean that he was incapable of murdering Geraldine Evans.

Christie also claimed to love his wife, but this did not deter him from murdering her in 1952.

[Honest John]

LK does indeed say this, based on Baker's investigative journalism. Yet Brabin states that she denied the story was true and so there seems no definite statement that Christie claimed he would perform an abortion. LK very unreliable source. Lucy married a Mr Dyson in about 1957 and they went to live in the West Riding of Yorkshire. Don't know what happened to Joan. She was married to Charles Vincent who worked in his parents' grocery shop. Joan sometimes served Christie.

[Limehouse]

Hello Honest John

I can't wait to get a copy of your book when it comes out next year. It should be a fascinating read!!

It is interesting that it will show that in many respects Christie was an ordinary man and not a monster. For example, one of his redeeming features seems to be that he was apparently fond of animals and children. As I have said before, this could conceivably militate against the possibility of Christie being the murderer of Geraldine Evans, as it would therefore seem relatively unlikely that he would attack a child and he had no known history of violence towards children. Moreover, the abuse that he suffered at the hands of his own father might even have made him sensitive to the suffering of children!!!!!!

One wonders if he was able to relate to children better than he could to adult women?

Among the scattered pieces of information I have come across on the web concerning Christie's family are that his father Ernest John Christie was born in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, and that a distant relative like his great-great-great grandfather was born in Kilmarnock in Scotland.

Until fairy recently there was a website with a picture of Christie's father on it. I think it was concerned with the St John's Ambulance Assocation with which he was involved.

It is known that his maternal grandfather David Halliday was a founder of Halliday and Midgley, Halifax's first boot manufacturer. It would be interesting to know when this firm went out of business!!

It also appears that Christie was able to drive and may therefore have had a valid driving licence. I have read that when he worked in the Ultra Radio Works at Park Royal he was employed as an electric van driver at one point, and I have also read that he met the lady whom he later assaulted with a cricket bat when he was driving a coach to Margate. Also, the fact that he stole a car indicates that he was able to drive.

It is also said that the father of Ruth Fuerst, his first known victim, was named Ludwig Fuerst and was an artist in Vienna. It would be interesting to know something of his career, but I have been unable to find any reference to him on the web, so presumably his work was not well-known.

It would also be interesting to know more about Hectorina MacLennan, his Scottish victim. I understand that contrary to popular belief there is no evidence that she was a prostitute, although she seems to have led a very unsettled lifestyle in London and lived with several partners, including Alexander Baker. I have read that she was born in Aultbea in Ross-Shire; therefore her early childhood must have been quite different from what she later experienced in London.

Perhaps the book will answer these and other questions concerning Christie, his family and victims.

Hi Sherlock,

Ok - so Christie may well have been fond of children and animals, but isn't it equally likely that Evans was more than fond of his own child and therefore unlikely to harm her?

[contrafib]

Hi John (and others),

If you wouldn't mind, there's one thing about the case that i would like your opinion on. In LK's book, there's a line which says 'on (date), Beryl told Lucy Endecott that Christie was going to abort her'. This seems to be significant if true, but is it verifiable??
I wonder whether anything was heard of Miss Endecott or Joan Vincent. They seemed to have a ring-side seat so to speak, for the relationship between Evans and his wife. Tim apparently spent a night or two alone with Lucy, reports differ, which seemed a bizarre twist to that particular story.

[Honest John]

The meeting that did not happen in March 1953 between Rae and Christie is referred to by Neil Root in Frenzy as well as in the book you refer to. I have to say that I have never come across any reliable source about this to authenticate it. The evidence puts Christie in south London not north. I am tempted either to refute this story as a myth or not to refer to it at all. But I would be happy to hear from anyone else about this.

[Honest John]

Thanks for the link. I remember trawling through the census last year for all this; it shows, contrary to received opinion, he had six siblings and all survived into adulthood. However, I don't know when the sister who went to London died. No one of that name appears on the death registers, but possibly she reverted to her maiden name or remarried.

[Honest John]

I don't think a driving licence was compulsory until about 1930. Interesting that a number of killers were lorry drivers - Robert Black and John Sutcliffe for instance. Christie and Evans were also drivers. The only known picture of Ernest Christie is in his uniform and a copy should appear in the book, as well as one of his wife and the young Christie (well, 21).

Christie was accused of the murder of the little girl at Windsor, but although the file is closed still, I was shown the extract from it referring to Christie.

[contrafib]

Here's quite a bit of info. to get your teeth into!!

http://www.robshistory.co.uk/johnreginaldhallidaychristie.html

[Sherlock]

Hello Honest John

I can't wait to get a copy of your book when it comes out next year. It should be a fascinating read!!

It is interesting that it will show that in many respects Christie was an ordinary man and not a monster. For example, one of his redeeming features seems to be that he was apparently fond of animals and children. As I have said before, this could conceivably militate against the possibility of Christie being the murderer of Geraldine Evans, as it would therefore seem relatively unlikely that he would attack a child and he had no known history of violence towards children. Moreover, the abuse that he suffered at the hands of his own father might even have made him sensitive to the suffering of children!!!!!!

One wonders if he was able to relate to children better than he could to adult women?

Among the scattered pieces of information I have come across on the web concerning Christie's family are that his father Ernest John Christie was born in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, and that a distant relative like his great-great-great grandfather was born in Kilmarnock in Scotland.

Until fairy recently there was a website with a picture of Christie's father on it. I think it was concerned with the St John's Ambulance Assocation with which he was involved.

It is known that his maternal grandfather David Halliday was a founder of Halliday and Midgley, Halifax's first boot manufacturer. It would be interesting to know when this firm went out of business!!

It also appears that Christie was able to drive and may therefore have had a valid driving licence. I have read that when he worked in the Ultra Radio Works at Park Royal he was employed as an electric van driver at one point, and I have also read that he met the lady whom he later assaulted with a cricket bat when he was driving a coach to Margate. Also, the fact that he stole a car indicates that he was able to drive.

It is also said that the father of Ruth Fuerst, his first known victim, was named Ludwig Fuerst and was an artist in Vienna. It would be interesting to know something of his career, but I have been unable to find any reference to him on the web, so presumably his work was not well-known.

It would also be interesting to know more about Hectorina MacLennan, his Scottish victim. I understand that contrary to popular belief there is no evidence that she was a prostitute, although she seems to have led a very unsettled lifestyle in London and lived with several partners, including Alexander Baker. I have read that she was born in Aultbea in Ross-Shire; therefore her early childhood must have been quite different from what she later experienced in London.

Perhaps the book will answer these and other questions concerning Christie, his family and victims.

[Honest John]

Dear Contrafib; the book is to be 80,000 words long - I would have like more, but the publishers set a restriction. With 500 words a page, that should be 160 pages.

Christie emerges, I hope, from the book as a human being, not a monster, though canonisation is not my aim. As Curtis-Benett said at the trial - 'I am not saying he is a nice man, if I did you would tell me to shut up'.

Hard to say about the level of detail. I should think that if I say that much of what you'll learn is not a radical departure from perceived wisdom, but there are many aspects of his life which haven't been made 'public' and some which are elaborated, if that makes sense.

Lots more information about Christie's family, his wife and his victims.

House to Remember is very disappointing.

[contrafib]

Great news. Without giving too much away, will we find that the official details known about Christie to this point are very inaccurate or is it just small details?? I'm aware that the car stolen from vicar, and Battersea prostitute stories are not entirely accurate, and also we know that Christie occupied Evans's flat originally and so moved to R Place in 1937.
And, will we learn more about some of the minor players in the story??
Anyway, i'll look forward to it. How many pages roughly??