Ian Brady dead

[MysterySinger]

As regards Brady and Hindley it is a sobering thought that Lesley Ann Downey was murdered a little over a mile as the crow flies from the house I lived in back then (and left only comparatively recently). I was 8 and the tales that were told post trial by the kids locally about that crime in particular filled many of us with fear - I avoided Hattersley as far as I could for a long time. Still, I often wondered why my Mum wouldn't let me go anywhere even in my early teens.

Recalling the dates for the crimes - Pauline Reade (12th July 1963), John Kilbride (23rd November 1963), Keith Bennett (16th June 1964), Lesley Ann Downey (26th December 1964) and Edward Evans (6th October 1965) there seem to be long gaps with regard to the two Hattersley killings which might make you think there could be more than the 5 overall we know about (there's that number 5 again).

They moved to the area from Manchester and it's a fact that the outsiders have given my home town of Hyde (and also Hattersley) a very bad name - I'm referring here, in particular, to Brady, Hindley, Harold Shipman and Dale Cregan who all committed horrendous crimes in the Town but were aliens. Shipman was at one time in the same practice as my own Doctor and, yes, I had the misfortune to consult him and on at least one occasion he deputised for my own Doctor on a home visit. In the end he did the decent thing and saved us from years of keeping him (!), Brady had no such scruples. I'll stop there because I have only swear words and insults left at this moment.

[GUT]

But nor can he dispute a claim that it was waived before death.

Ahhh but the onus is on the lawyer to show it was waived, and the question I was addressing was along the lines of "does privilege survive death?"

[Bridewell]

Basically because the "right" belongs to the client not the lawyer and when he is dead he can't waive it.

But nor can he dispute a claim that it was waived before death.

[Robert]

A few grandmothers? I thought the traditional number was two.

[GUT]

You can't beat Grannies, they're like a second mother. At whatever hour I was put to bed, it was always too early. So I sneaked upstairs (taking care not to make the stairs creak) and watched my Nan's TV. She hadn't the heart to send me down. I fact I often got a mug of cocoa and some buttered toast.

I was lucky had a few grandmothers and one Great Grandmother.

[Phil Carter]

You can't beat Grannies, they're like a second mother. At whatever hour I was put to bed, it was always too early. So I sneaked upstairs (taking care not to make the stairs creak) and watched my Nan's TV. She hadn't the heart to send me down. I fact I often got a mug of cocoa and some buttered toast.

Hi Robert,

" 'ere lad..'ere's thruppence. Don't tell your Mum"

Ahh..the memories. 😊


Regards

Phil

[Robert]

You can't beat Grannies, they're like a second mother. At whatever hour I was put to bed, it was always too early. So I sneaked upstairs (taking care not to make the stairs creak) and watched my Nan's TV. She hadn't the heart to send me down. I fact I often got a mug of cocoa and some buttered toast.

[Phil Carter]

I find it strange sometimes on that line she was born 88 her daughter 6th child, was born 1914 (gran aged 26) her daughter, my mum in '35 (Nan was 21).

Now if each first born was born when the mum was the age if the youngest in the generation could probably fit another two generations in, (if you can follow that)

Gran born 1888,
Her first born 1902 (yep 14)
The youngest mum in the next generation was 16
Next generation it was 18
Next a 17 (that'd bring us to 1959 the year I was born)

So instead of Gran, Nan, Mum, me, there'd have been another generation.

Now on dad's side a whole different kettle of fish

Grandad was born 1883 (always thought if funny that grandad was five years older than great grandmother)
He was 46 by the time rolled around
Then dad was 30 before he was blessed with perfection (me).

Hi Gut,

Much like my family.
Gran..b.1888 was the youngest of 10.
The oldest was born 1873 (gt uncle Charlie)
Her Mum was born 1854 (next youngest)
Her Gran born 1829.( next youngest)

If the oldest had been "counted" in direct line each time... It would be 1806, 1844, 1873, 1904, 1926,1951.
My Mums cousin b. 1925 was the youngest of the kids of Charlie (9 kids..8 boys and one girl).He..the cousin..was born one year before the oldest(a cousin of his) of the generation before. He died 8 years ago aged 83.
Like you say..a generation jump.
My youngest was born in 1995. 79 years after his gran!

Regards

Phil

[Phil Carter]

And they sure saw some changes mine would often talk about going from horse and cart to car and bus, and planes and man walking in the moon. That new tangled telephone, TV and the colour TV, I just wish someone had recorded it all.

Hi Gut,

You are old enough to recall "North Sea Gas" being piped into every home in the early 1970's.
My gran saw the workers slowly digging up and working their way down the street. She wasn't happy. We had to be there all the time any worker entered the house.
"Bleedin' strangers".. she called them.
When told by me..that NSG was much safer than ordinary gas..and that it was impossible for people to gas themselves in the oven with this stuff. .she said..
"If I wann'id to bleedin' top my bleedin' self.. I would 'ave done it by now boy.
One question. Will it cook the Sunday dinna betta?"
I thought quickly and said.."Actually..yes".
"Well..thats orright then". "Let the lazy sods in n tell 'em to get a bleedin' move on. Today is Friday. I want Sunday dinner ready by 2.30 sharp on Sunday. I'll save 'em some drippin'."

She didn't have a phone. My Dad rewired her house in 1948 when her hubby died. She never went to a hospital in her life before the day she died aged 90. "Don't trust bleedin' doctors ". She gave birth to her 4 kids at home..helped by her sister. Smoked 20 strong tobacco roll ups a day..drank a pint of Guinness every evening at home.. and was as hard as nails. I loved her to bits.

Kids dont know the meaning of family history today.


Regards

Phil

[GUT]

Hi Gut,

Goes to show eh? Mum was 42 when I was born. Gran was 28 when Mum was born. Both relatively old ages for births in those days. Gran was born smack bang in the autumn of 1888 in the East End. At least 5 generations going back from her birth were all East Enders. And all the other gt..gt gt grandparents on Mums side.


Phil

I find it strange sometimes on that line she was born 88 her daughter 6th child, was born 1914 (gran aged 26) her daughter, my mum in '35 (Nan was 21).

Now if each first born was born when the mum was the age if the youngest in the generation could probably fit another two generations in, (if you can follow that)

Gran born 1888,
Her first born 1902 (yep 14)
The youngest mum in the next generation was 16
Next generation it was 18
Next a 17 (that'd bring us to 1959 the year I was born)

So instead of Gran, Nan, Mum, me, there'd have been another generation.

Now on dad's side a whole different kettle of fish

Grandad was born 1883 (always thought if funny that grandad was five years older than great grandmother)
He was 46 by the time rolled around
Then dad was 30 before he was blessed with perfection (me).

[Phil Carter]

Just noticed something funny Phil.

I'm 58 this year. So near enough to the same age.

You say your gran (I assume Grandmother) was born in 1888. But for me it was my Great Grandmother who was born in 1888.

Hi Gut,

Goes to show eh? Mum was 42 when I was born. Gran was 28 when Mum was born. Both relatively old ages for births in those days. Gran was born smack bang in the autumn of 1888 in the East End. At least 5 generations going back from her birth were all East Enders. And all the other gt..gt gt grandparents on Mums side.


Phil

[GUT]

Just noticed something funny Phil.

I'm 58 this year. So near enough to the same age.

You say your gran (I assume Grandmother) was born in 1888. But for me it was my Great Grandmother who was born in 1888.

And they sure saw some changes mine would often talk about going from horse and cart to car and bus, and planes and man walking in the moon. That new tangled telephone, TV and the colour TV, I just wish someone had recorded it all.

[GUT]

Just noticed something funny Phil.

I'm 58 this year. So near enough to the same age.

You say your gran (I assume Grandmother) was born in 1888. But for me it was my Great Grandmother who was born in 1888.

[Phil Carter]

I think one of the reasons the elderly are losing their aura of sacred cows when it comes to being targets of crime, is that so few of them survive from the really bad times - the wars and the Depression. A man who was in WW2 at age 18 in 1945 would now be 90. If we look at today's pensioners at the younger end, they're probably more associated with Teddy Boys and hippies.

Hi Robert,

Yes..I agree. It seems strange for anyone from the younger generation reading this to realise that even though I am nearly 59, my gran was born in 1888 and died in 1978. Think about it. I was influenced by someone influenced my Victorians born in the mid Victorian period. HER gran was born in 1829 and died in 1918. My mothers gt gran was ALIVE when Mum was born in 1916.

What that should tell all is how we..born after WW2 in the 1950's..were influenced by a society that had lived through two world wars and even other wars before WW1. The man was the patriarch and earned the money. The woman raised the kids. That didn't change substantially until the 1960's in the UK. But INFLUENCE carried on through the Victorian era until the 1970's.

The Brady and Hindley pair also grew up with those same influences. The older generation had no respect for the younger one. However..society was slowly changing and one small group of people were demonstrating, through behaviour, their disgust at Victorian values.

It only takes one mentally imbalanced person like Brady to act out his new feeling of indepence HIS way and before long.. you have the ultimate anti-establishmentarialist taking individual power to an extreme.

That's why our generation's parents were so shocked. It struck a blow to the core of a solid family society. The threat was now real. Very real. Control of normal values had been lost.

I tell 7th grade kids that my gran was 21 the first time she switched an electric light on. They gasp. They don't believe it. Todays kids are totally unlike us at their age. They have no solid history to base growing up upon because THEIR history is in a state of constant change.

All surreal to the oldest generation you mentioned Robert. When the 1950's kids die off..there will be no viable connection to the Victorian age left.


Phil

[Robert]

I think one of the reasons the elderly are losing their aura of sacred cows when it comes to being targets of crime, is that so few of them survive from the really bad times - the wars and the Depression. A man who was in WW2 at age 18 in 1945 would now be 90. If we look at today's pensioners at the younger end, they're probably more associated with Teddy Boys and hippies.