At Rural South Carolina Shop, Confederate Flags Fly Off Shelves

[Rosemary]

On the other hand

Then I'd have to ask my great-g-g grandmother how she felt being sold into slavery in Senegambia & sent in the Diaspora to British colonies in the Caribbean. But then, I'd also ask my ancestors in Cantabria how they felt about the possibility of being Roman slaves. I have collateral ancestors on my grandfather's side who committed suicide in their little village, en masse, rather than submit. Or so we were told.

[Rosemary]

Well

Very true, Pinkmoon. You should follow up your Civil War reading with some works on the Reconstruction, Jim Crow laws, the novel "The Help", and the documentary series "Eyes on the Prize".

The United States in the 1850s were divided into the industrialized North and the agricultural cotton and tobacco empires of the South, a fedual society built on slave labor. They feared the growing Aboltionist movement would lead to the end of slavery, so they resisted the Federal government and started what the North saw as an "insurrection".

What I don't understand is why couldn't they use free, paid laborers? Was it simple greed? Stubborn pride on the part of the plantation masters?
Yes, General Sherman's March to the Sea destroyed many fine plantations and threw the South into even greater poverty, but more than that it cemented Southern hatred against both Yankees and freed slaves. This is why in the 1950s and 60s young people of both races were marching for civil rights, such as voting and education, that had still been denied to them by the white authorities.

I'd have to ask my great-grandfather about that, but my guess is $$$

[Rosemary]

Losers

One problem we have in America is many in the South feel this way anyway...a good friend of mine moved to the south to teach, and in some of the text books in his district refer to the civil war as " the War of Northern Aggression" and that’s what these kids are taught.....I have another example of something that happened to him in that district ( he has since left it) that is mind blowing... but I should ask his permission before I post that story....

in many ways we are way to divided a nation.. fuelled by hate and mistrust...and some of it, not all by any means, does stem from that flag... do i think it should be banned.. no, wear it on your shirt, fly it at your home if you like.. but I defiantly believe IT SHOULD BE REMOVED from ANY government building...much in the same way I feel anything of a religious nature should be as well.....not banned...but not representative of the government....

that's just one Yanks opinion though


Steadmund Brand

It was never called War of Northern Aggresion in my textbooks as a child 50-60s but we have developed a culture among the lower & working white class, otherwise known as rednecks or peckerwoods, of defeatism. I'll not debate wrong here, but I don't believe in changing history in retrospect, even though I'm a descendant of slaves. I'd never call slave-quarters a dependency building or servants building.

[GUT]

Hi Jeff

I guess if there's going to be a reaction against all things Confederate, then this song will have to be taken off the radio playlists. Joan Baez, of all people, sings it :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ni...Old_Dixie_Down

And a beautiful song it be.

[Robert]

Hi Jeff

I guess if there's going to be a reaction against all things Confederate, then this song will have to be taken off the radio playlists. Joan Baez, of all people, sings it :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_They_Drove_Old_Dixie_Down

[GUT]

G'day Jeff

Not every major Country.

We avoided it. And what could be more important than Aus.

[Mayerling]

If that was a civil war then I'd hate to see the Americans when they're not being civil.

Hi Robert,

Every major country and many less than major ones had civil wars (some several). Cromwell's wars were Civil Wars (initially) against the Cavaliers. The French had the "Fronde" in the 17th Century, and in the 18th Century there were wars between Frenchmen during the Revolution (such as that one described by Balzac in "The Chouans"). China had one in the 1850s to 1860s (the one that "Chinese" Gordon distinguished himself in) known as the "Taiping Revolt" that cost over ten million lives (which is more than the contemporary American Civil War). None of them can really be considered "civil".

As for the flag matter, I wondered about another flag - Texas uses "the Lone Star" which was originally it's flag as a republic. I guess it is not in the same category as the "Stars and Bars" because there was more universal support for the Texas cause. Even local Mexicans like Juan Seguin supported the fight for independence. Still, Texas did have slavery.

By the way, one of the best sounding state songs is "Maryland, My Maryland" which has the same melody as "Oh Tannenbaum!" Yet the Maryland song is about how the citizens of Baltimore tried to prevent a Massachusetts regiment from changing trains in their city to go to Washington in April 1861. As a result of this riot many townspeople and soldiers were killed. As far as I know it is the only state song that is about an act of defiance directed against the central Federal government. But the song also is celebrating the heroism of pro-Confederate southerners. Interesting problem there.

Jeff

[Robert]

If that was a civil war then I'd hate to see the Americans when they're not being civil.

[pinkmoon]

The people who mourn the "lost cause" need to take a step back and seriously think what would have happened if the south had won the civil war it's quite a scary prospect when you think hard about it .

[Steadmund Brand]

But remember the victor writes the history if the South had won they would be the heros and the North the villains.

One problem we have in America is many in the South feel this way anyway...a good friend of mine moved to the south to teach, and in some of the text books in his district refer to the civil war as " the War of Northern Aggression" and that’s what these kids are taught.....I have another example of something that happened to him in that district ( he has since left it) that is mind blowing... but I should ask his permission before I post that story....

in many ways we are way to divided a nation.. fuelled by hate and mistrust...and some of it, not all by any means, does stem from that flag... do i think it should be banned.. no, wear it on your shirt, fly it at your home if you like.. but I defiantly believe IT SHOULD BE REMOVED from ANY government building...much in the same way I feel anything of a religious nature should be as well.....not banned...but not representative of the government....

that's just one Yanks opinion though


Steadmund Brand

[GUT]

It's the difficulty of historians to not judge by present values/principals what has been past. Otherwise we begin to sound like an ethno-historical interpretation of Hiesenberg's Uncertainty Prnciple applied to social sciences.

I also suspect Historians may have been a bad choice of words, perhaps should have said those looking back on time.

[GUT]

It's the difficulty of historians to not judge by present values/principals what has been past. Otherwise we begin to sound like an ethno-historical interpretation of Hiesenberg's Uncertainty Prnciple applied to social sciences.

True.

[Rosemary]

Presentism

I may add that suspect that in years to come historians may judge our actions today in a similar light to how we look back on slavery of the 1800s.

It's the difficulty of historians to not judge by present values/principals what has been past. Otherwise we begin to sound like an ethno-historical interpretation of Hiesenberg's Uncertainty Prnciple applied to social sciences.

[GUT]

I may add that suspect that in years to come historians may judge our actions today in a similar light to how we look back on slavery of the 1800s.

[GUT]

As a descendant of slave owners & of slaves, I have both heart, mind & soul in me. As an historian, I say don't do presentism. But that will never happen. I fly no flag. I am Confederate & Garifuna. Which one do I fly? By % of DNA?!

I too am descended of slave owners and slave traders, fortunately I live in a country where slavery was never an issue, (however there was advantage taken off Islanders and Natives as low wage labour).

Whilst I don't agree with slavery, let alone trading in slaves, I realise that these ancestors lived in a different time with different standards and try not to judge their behaviour.