Founder of Anti-Gay Westboro Baptist Church Dies

[jmenges]

My uncle was a former high-ranking police officer, retired. My father was a municipal court judge who ruled on many cases brought locally against Westboro, hence them picketing in front of his house.

JM

[Tom_Wescott]

Many states (before the Sup decision) instituted a protest buffer zone around military funerals, just as they've erected "free-speech zones" at political conventions for demonstrations. When my uncle's funeral was picketed by the Phelpses back in 2002 there were no laws distancing Westboro from the funeral, and not a single biker in sight. The picketers were virtually on top of us, and my uncle was a police officer so there were many cops amongst the mourners. All that could be done is try to ignore them.

JM

All I can say is that if I were at a relative's funeral, and that relative was a hero...or even not...and peeps were picketing him, I'd tell everyone to pack a lunch and some shovels because more graves would need to be dug.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[GUT]

G'day jmenges

I don't know a lot about the US Constitution, but don't see how a buffer zone could offend free speech.

If you don't mind me asking, and feel free not to answer, what dd they have against your uncle?

[jmenges]

Many states (before the Sup decision) instituted a protest buffer zone around military funerals, just as they've erected "free-speech zones" at political conventions for demonstrations. When my uncle's funeral was picketed by the Phelpses back in 2002 there were no laws distancing Westboro from the funeral, and not a single biker in sight. The picketers were virtually on top of us, and my uncle was a police officer so there were many cops amongst the mourners. All that could be done is try to ignore them.

JM

[GUT]

G'day Robert

A Judge's job is to apply the law, not exercise common sense, Judges often have to make rulings that they personally find appalling, because the law says that is what should happen.

[Robert]

I could put forward arguments using the distinction between exercising freedom of speech and exercising it in a situation where the victim cannot escape it, e.g. following someone down the street while shouting at him, or hurling abuse during a funeral ceremony which has to be carried out come what may. But at the end of the day systems of morality are not based on mathematical logic and there is a role for the discretion of commonsense. The judges should have exercised their commonsense here and banned the funeral demonstrations.

[jmenges]

But I do believe a few thousand motor bike riders hold a contrary view and in practise generally get their freedoms in first?

What do you mean by the Patriot Guard getting their freedoms in first?

JM

[Cogidubnus]

Hi cd

The U.S. Supreme Court said that they have the right to turn up at funerals and express their views however hateful they may be. And if you were to assault them you would (sadly) be arrested

.

But I do believe a few thousand motor bike riders hold a contrary view and in practise generally get their freedoms in first?

(The US Supreme Court sound to be about as much use as the EU Court of Human Rights - **** all in short)

All the best

Dave

[jmenges]

Hello Dave,

The U.S. Supreme Court said that they have the right to turn up at funerals and express their views however hateful they may be. And if you were to assault them you would (sadly) be arrested.

c.d.

And, ironically, if you were ever in need of a top-notch defense attorney in the State of Kansas, you'd better have Jonathan and Margie Phelps on your speed dial.

JM

[pinkmoon]

Hi Jason

This is fine in principle...but does this then give them the right to turn up at funerals and loudly heckle the grieving relatives...to my mind freedom of speech involves responsibilities as well as privileges...and let's make no mistake, freedom of any kind is something that's been earned in a very costly fashion down the years, so it's definitely a privilege rather than a right.

"As far as I'm concerned if someone turns up at one of my family funerals and heckles, then they're quite free to express their opinion...if one of my family in turn decides to kick the miscreant's head/gonads in, then that too is a fair expression of opinion...after all if we're talking moral principles then the law of the land is surelyof no account at all...after all these people need to know that every action taken involves a consequence..."

Think it through...Is this seriously the kind of argument you're seriously condoning old mate?

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,I think if somebody turned up to a funeral in England and started shouting abuse then the police would be summoned and the person or persons would be rightly arrested.

[c.d.]

Hi Jason

This is fine in principle...but does this then give them the right to turn up at funerals and loudly heckle the grieving relatives...to my mind freedom of speech involves responsibilities as well as privileges...and let's make no mistake, freedom of any kind is something that's been earned in a very costly fashion down the years, so it's definitely a privilege rather than a right.

"As far as I'm concerned if someone turns up at one of my family funerals and heckles, then they're quite free to express their opinion...if one of my family in turn decides to kick the miscreant's head/gonads in, then that too is a fair expression of opinion...after all if we're talking moral principles then the law of the land is surelyof no account at all...after all these people need to know that every action taken involves a consequence..."

Think it through...Is this seriously the kind of argument you're seriously condoning old mate?

All the best

Dave

Hello Dave,

The U.S. Supreme Court said that they have the right to turn up at funerals and express their views however hateful they may be. And if you were to assault them you would (sadly) be arrested.

c.d.

[jmenges]

They are a bad advertisement for other Christian groups beliefs, because they are, by most people, all lumped in together.

That's absolutely not true, at least in Topeka. They picket every Sunday in front of a variety of "real" churches around town. No one I know lumps Westboro's insanity together with any other church groups beliefs.

JM

[GUT]

G'day Babybird

No they are a great advertisement for their beliefs, just most people think that their beliefs are rubbish.

They are a bad advertisement for other Christian groups beliefs, because they are, by most people, all lumped in together.

[babybird67]

i'd like to know...

just what kind of religion condones such hatred? They are the worst kind of advertisement for their beliefs.

[jmenges]

They picketed at my uncles funeral, picketed in front of my father's house, and issued a press release just to say that a cousin of mine, who died from a brain aneurysm when she was sixteen, was burning in hell alongside several other deceased members of my family. Needless to say, my family and the Phelps' are well acquainted. Fred wasn't very active at all in the last 10 years give or take, and I do believe his death is meaningless to the church members. They have had a new leader for quite awhile now and will continue with their routine, possibly getting even worse. I think you'll see a few defections from the church but there will be a core group of nut jobs who will remain.

JM