Survey/Intro

[Losmandris]

Thanks Tristan!

That's interesting.

I very much doubt that I would be able to tell the difference between a brummie and a black country accent, so everyone from that region is now a Yam Yam to me (although not in an insulting way obvs)!

Will research this Bathams bitter.

If it's the world's finest ale, it's something that I need to know about. Now!

You really should. A truly amazing drink. Though alas I think you will only find it in and around Birmingham. There are just six Bathams pubs and then only a few free houses dotted about that serve it on Draft. You can find bottles of it but it is in no way as good as it is on draft. I'm back home in a couple of weeks and will certainly be sampling a couple of pints if the opportunity presents itself!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Present!

I just noticed that of the four things that you mention in your biog only ‘Glaswegian’ doesn’t apply to me.

[Herlock Sholmes]

1. Living in Colorado (suburb of Denver); born and raised in southern California.
2. Couple of things in my youth: Seeing an episode of the original "Star Trek" series, "Wolf in the Fold" in which an entity that lived on "hatred of women" possessed some folks and murdered people at a space outpost. Also, in the 1970s seeing "In Search of..." (with Leonard Nimoy), their Jack the Ripper episode (where I learned the name!)
3. Probably a book by Fido or Rumbelow.
4. At least 5, maybe more? Don't go as far as including Thames Torso csses.
5. My earliest suspect choice was Druitt. Currently am more sure who isn't a viable suspect than who is.
6. What's up with Kelly being reported alive after her supposed time of dismemberment?
7. Mrs. Maxwell.
8. Can't think of one aspect I've changed my mind on. Do go back and forth on the Maybrick "diary".
9. I dislike the tendency to pick a historical celebrity and attempt to frame him as JtR, often based on "clues" left behind in artwork or writings. Or as some sort of desire to prove a relationship to a famous serial killer.
10. Very unlikely this case will be fully solved.
11. "Ultimate Sourcebook", books by Fido, Begg, Rumbelow. Just got the Sourcebook recently, noted there was a supposed Ripper Letter from 1896! More to add to my fascination with the letters.
12. Anyone we can prove was in London at the time of the murders.

Thanks for that Pat.

[Fantomas]

Yeah, Barn is here and I think we have Fantomas too.

So, as far as I'm aware the Glasgow contingent stands at four.

One more and we could start a five a side team!

Present!

[Pcdunn]

I don’t know if anyone will respond but I thought I’d give it a go. Twelve questions.

1. Location (country will do but if you want, you could add your country of birth too if you want to)
2. How did you first discover the case?
3. What was the first book(s) that you read on the case?
4. If you had to pick a number what would be your choice as the likeliest number of victims?
5. Of the named suspects which, if any, do you think are the likeliest?
6. This has been asked on another thread but….if you could be given the answer to one particular aspect of the case (not who did it) what would you choose?
7. If you had the opportunity to question one of the witnesses in the case who would you choose?
8. Is there any important aspect of the case that you’ve changed your mind about of the years?
9. Do you have any pet hates about the case or how we look at it?
10. How likely/unlikely do you think it is that the case will ever be solved?
11. What books would you recommend to someone new to the case?
12. Is there anyone in the case that you feel might be worth closer investigation as a possible suspect?

1. Living in Colorado (suburb of Denver); born and raised in southern California.
2. Couple of things in my youth: Seeing an episode of the original "Star Trek" series, "Wolf in the Fold" in which an entity that lived on "hatred of women" possessed some folks and murdered people at a space outpost. Also, in the 1970s seeing "In Search of..." (with Leonard Nimoy), their Jack the Ripper episode (where I learned the name!)
3. Probably a book by Fido or Rumbelow.
4. At least 5, maybe more? Don't go as far as including Thames Torso csses.
5. My earliest suspect choice was Druitt. Currently am more sure who isn't a viable suspect than who is.
6. What's up with Kelly being reported alive after her supposed time of dismemberment?
7. Mrs. Maxwell.
8. Can't think of one aspect I've changed my mind on. Do go back and forth on the Maybrick "diary".
9. I dislike the tendency to pick a historical celebrity and attempt to frame him as JtR, often based on "clues" left behind in artwork or writings. Or as some sort of desire to prove a relationship to a famous serial killer.
10. Very unlikely this case will be fully solved.
11. "Ultimate Sourcebook", books by Fido, Begg, Rumbelow. Just got the Sourcebook recently, noted there was a supposed Ripper Letter from 1896! More to add to my fascination with the letters.
12. Anyone we can prove was in London at the time of the murders.

[Ms Diddles]

Ms Diddles will know who the Geordies are because they cannot get through a sentence without mentioning Sunderland and Mackems. They're absolutely obsessed with all things Sunderland.

They could be talking about Garibaldi's unification of Italy and they'll find a way to crowbar Sunderland and Mackems into the conversation. Not that Geordies would know anything about Garibaldi, given that they're pretty much uniformly knackers and thicker than mince.

In fact, the biggest mystery in this case is why no Geordie observer has claimed that Jack the Ripper must have been a Mackem.

Oh, there's still time for that FM!

[Fleetwood Mac]

Ms Diddles,

The easiest 'tell' for a Maccum (apart from the one eye instead of two and the high likelihood they married their sibling) is the truly ghastly way they talk.

Ms Diddles will know who the Geordies are because they cannot get through a sentence without mentioning Sunderland and Mackems. They're absolutely obsessed with all things Sunderland.

They could be talking about Garibaldi's unification of Italy and they'll find a way to crowbar Sunderland and Mackems into the conversation. Not that Geordies would know anything about Garibaldi, given that they're pretty much uniformly knackers and thicker than mince.

In fact, the biggest mystery in this case is why no Geordie observer has claimed that Jack the Ripper must have been a Mackem.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It’s interesting how someone can either pick up or lose (at least partially) an accent. I remember when I was younger my brother went to live for 6 months with his new girlfriends family in Swansea and we were surprised how quickly he picked up so much of the accent. I think it would be sad if accents completely died out but I’m wondering if this might eventually happen? I still have an accent but it’s nowhere near as strong as my parents or grandparents. It sounds like so many kids today speak in a kind of approved accent. Where the word ‘like’ is pronounced ‘lake.’

Most annoying language trait at the moment……it probably doesn’t irritate others as much as it irritates me but…..people who begin every sentence with “so!” Where has that come from?

An example of old phrases for you. I have an 85 year old aunt who is my late father’s twin. Every so often instead of just saying “road” she’ll say “hoss road.” Like….”he was standing in the middle of the hoss road.” You’ve probably guessed that it means “horse road.” And no, we don’t live in a kind of Amish community. My dad used to use the phrase too.

I might move this to another thread?

[Fleetwood Mac]

btw imho the welsh accent is so beautiful..sounds like elves singing

All of the accents and dialect of regions of Britain are weird and wonderful. I agree on the Welsh accent. By the way, there is a noticeable difference between North Wales and South Wales.

[Abby Normal]

omg i love this! im fascinated by the english accents. i can totally understand cockney no problem and its hilarious but I swear when the royals speak im like what?!? lol

btw imho the welsh accent is so beautiful..sounds like elves singing .

[Iconoclast]

Yeah, F.M!

I must admit that I can spot a North East accent fine, but can't differentiate between geordie, maccum (spelling?!) and Durham accents at all.

I've lived in Glasgow for thirty years, so have no problems understanding it (even Kenny Dalglish!!).

I can now do a fairly convincing Glasgow accent if the mood takes me, but am told that I actually still sound much more English (ie people can understand me!!!)

Edit: Sorry, I mixed up my post a bit. I thought it was you that had mentioned Durham / Geordie accents, but it was actually Herlock. D'oh!

Ms Diddles,

The easiest 'tell' for a Maccum (apart from the one eye instead of two and the high likelihood they married their sibling) is the truly ghastly way they talk. If the one-eye isn't a sufficient giveaway, you could try throwing a set of keys into the room at which point a Maccum will repeat endlessly, "Wheeze keys are theeze?"

On accents, I've lived in Newcastle, London, Aberdeen, Edinburgh, the Midlands, and the Scottish Borders, and I can honestly say the finest accent is the Teuchter Aberdonian - it's a language fit for an ancient Scottish king never mind just his people. It's wonderful and rich and full of Grampian honesty - I love it. Foo's yer doos, ken?

ike

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yeah, F.M!

I must admit that I can spot a North East accent fine, but can't differentiate between geordie, maccum (spelling?!) and Durham accents at all.

I've lived in Glasgow for thirty years, so have no problems understanding it (even Kenny Dalglish!!).

I can now do a fairly convincing Glasgow accent if the mood takes me, but am told that I actually still sound much more English (ie people can understand me!!!)

Edit: Sorry, I mixed up my post a bit. I thought it was you that had mentioned Durham / Geordie accents, but it was actually Herlock. D'oh!

Hi Ms Diddles,

Much of the dialect is to do with the people who colonised these places.

Durham, Northumberland and South East Scotland were colonised by the Angles and the dialect is a result of that.

It's why you hear so many shared words that you don't hear in other parts of Britain, such as: skelp, burn (for stream), spelk, and so on.

You can draw a line on the River Tees into Yorkshire, and under that line, in Yorkshire; there are a lot of Viking place names and they use dialect derived from the Viking language, e.g. beck (for stream). Go above that line into Durham and farther north, where the Vikings didn't settle and there are no Viking place names, and people use burn (for stream) and other dialect derived from the Angles. Such as Gan Hyem (go home), which is almost identical to modern day Danish where the Angles came from: you won't hear this south of Durham, only in the land of Durham and Northumberland where the Vikings didn't settle and there is a strong Angle legacy.

In the event you lived here for a while, you would understand the difference. Northumberland is a thicker accent, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's any easier to understand as both Durham and Northumberland use local dialect that would be unintelligible to anyone outside of the region.

As for "ken" which you mention below, we use that too but maybe in a different fashion. We would say: "do you ken him?", meaning: "do you know him?"

[Dickere]

Ok, let's go!

Did away with the babysitter

[Herlock Sholmes]

See post to FM.

I'm guessing that as an east-coaster your nan would have finished many sentences with "ken" then?

My basic guide to Scottish accents:

Cuddly, quaint and lyrical - Highlands & Islands.

Like that, but slightly less pronounced - Inverness.

Like a Scottish fisherman - Aberdeen

On a continuum from Miss Jean Brodie (Morningside) to Trainspotting (Pilton) -Edinburgh

Pretty unintelligible with frequent swearing - Glasgow.

My nan’s accent must have changed a fair bit over the years because she’d lived in the midlands since the war when she met my grandad. Her mother though, my great-Grandmother, who always lived in Scotland had a much broader accent but it was still easy to understand. I had a couple of uncles up there that I only met a couple of times who I did struggle with a bit (but I was only 13/14 at the time.) And one of them tended to keep the local brewery in permanent profit which didn’t help.

[Ms Diddles]

I had a friend from Durham who was forever being called a Geordie and he always said that the two accents were nothing like each other, but they were to everyone not from that area. Unless you’re from a particular area many accents can sound the same or very similar. My Nan was from Rosyth but I just heard her accent as Scottish so there’s no way I could distinguish those accents that you mentioned.

See post to FM.

I'm guessing that as an east-coaster your nan would have finished many sentences with "ken" then?

My basic guide to Scottish accents:

Cuddly, quaint and lyrical - Highlands & Islands.

Like that, but slightly less pronounced - Inverness.

Like a Scottish fisherman - Aberdeen

On a continuum from Miss Jean Brodie (Morningside) to Trainspotting (Pilton) -Edinburgh

Pretty unintelligible with frequent swearing - Glasgow.