JFK a new twist

[Wickerman]

I really can't be bothered to destroy all of the "evidence" put forward by various of you, trying to convince us all that Lee did it.

Just listen to http://www.blackopradio.com/archives.html and it will all become clear.

What do you have to lose?

I for one would never attempt to convince anyone that Oswald was the shooter. While there are certain details which point to that conclusion, those same details may only point to his complicity in the assassination, but not to the act itself.

My long standing interest in the assassination was not necessarily what we have learned about Oswald, but the more obscure but highly volatile relationship between the Kennedy's, the Mafia & the CIA.

The CIA did collaborate with the Mafia to assassinate Castro. The Mafia did hold Kennedy responsible for the failure to regain Cuba from Castro. It had long been their base of operation until Castro booted them out.
Sam Giancana, Santos Trafficante and Carlos Marcello had untold number of reasons to take out their vengeance on Jack Kennedy.

There is nothing strange about Oswald being viewed as the lone assassin.
This is the interpretation we were intended to accept.
After the Warren Commission concluded its report it was uncovered that arms-length links did exist between Oswald, Ruby and the Mob. However, precise cause & effect has always eluded the investigators.

[I'veBeenToMitreSquare]

I really can't be bothered to destroy all of the "evidence" put forward by various of you, trying to convince us all that Lee did it.

Just listen to http://www.blackopradio.com/archives.html and it will all become clear.

What do you have to lose?

[Wickerman]

Only the final head shot ( explode on impact AR15 machine gun bullet ) came from Hickyes gun along with one or two other strays that impacted with the fence on the grassy knol ( hence the puffs of smoke that witnesses alluded to ) . The Oswald shot from the BD is the one that hit both Kennedy and Connally .. a completely different bullet designed to do exactly what it did ( to pass through a body ).

Another tell tale sign is the fact that three palings from the grassy knol fence were removed by the secret service directly following the assassination ! I wish the Ripper case was this straight forward

moonbegger .

I doubt any shots came from the Grassy Knoll. If you look at the Zapruder film Jackie's head is directly behind Kennedy's, any bullet shot from the Grassy Knoll that passed through Kennedy's head would also hit Jackie. As we know, that never happened.
I'm not talking about the direct line of sight from Zapruder, but a direct angle from the right & behind Zapruder.
Jackie would also have been hit.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon..Thank-You for the reply. Brennan refused to identify Oswald on 11-22.

Hi Robert.
According to the Warren Comm. (Ch.IV, p143) Brennan picked Oswald out of a police line-up on the evening of the 22nd, and swore that this was the man who fired the shots from the window.

I do not see Edwards or Fischer describing someone consistent with LHO.

I was using the conclusion published in the report.
"Their (Fischer/Edwards) testimony is of probative value, however, because their limited description is consistent with that of the man who has been found by the Commission, based on other evidence, to have fired the shots from the window".

Anyway-I think Brennan was caught up in the excitement.

I understand Brennan was sure, then unsure, then he apparently gave the reason for the wavering as his concern for his family. He was not comfortable with the idea that he might be the only witness to the shooter, and if this was a conspiracy then other members might victimize his family.
Or words to that effect.

[Ally]

Wow. With witty replies like that, whyever would you need a logical rebuttal. Good thing too as the conspiracy set never seems to have one.

[robert newell]

And none of the so-called conspiracy theories explains why precisely Oswald killed the officer Tippet.

It was his rifle. It was in his place of work. He leaves after the assassination. Kills a police officer and hides. Attempts to kill another police officer when he is caught.

But nah, it wasn't him, it was a frame up.

And there is no way Ruby killing him could have been anything other than a spur of the moment whim. The timing doesn't add up and Ruby's actions ahead of the killing don't indicate he was on any particular time table or in any hurry to be somewhere. It was pure chance he happened to be where he was, when he was and did the deed that spawned a thousand conspiracy theories.

My Ally you certainly learn an awful lot about testimony and evidence from watching those discovery channel programs...

[robert newell]

So what is your opinion of these four witnesses, Brennan, Fischer, Edwards & Euins, who all saw someone shooting from that window?
Brennan identified Oswald.
Fischer & Edwards described a man consistent with Oswald.
Euins only saw the figure of a man.

Hi Jon..Thank-You for the reply. Brennan refused to identify Oswald on 11-22. He testified the man was standing and resting his arm on the window while aiming. Not possible of course. He does not even appear on the list of line-up viewers.
I do not see Edwards or Fischer describing someone consistent with LHO. They saw a man in a light sports shirt. Also Fischer heard 4 shots...Edwards said shots were from knoll/railroad tracks. Amos Euins testified to a white man, maybe black man with a white spot on his head. Maybe dust, hair, bald...A gun, or a diversion, or even a sniper does not put Oswald in that window.
Anyway-I think Brennan was caught up in the excitement. Check out his post assassination stories. I think he did see someone up there, but not close enough for a serious description. I've always believed Euins also saw somone. I have ideas but they are just that. No one specific. Fischer and Edwards probably saw some one also. But saying they are consistent with an Oswald sighting is presumptuous......Robert

[moonbegger]

Hi moonbegger

Ok, so the trajectory is downwards, Hickey is standing, Kennedy is sitting, the gun is high enough to shoot over the top of the windscreen of Hickey's car, so this bullet goes through Kennedy's head and into Connally's back?
So is Connally hit by two bullets?

Only the final head shot ( explode on impact AR15 machine gun bullet ) came from Hickyes gun along with one or two other strays that impacted with the fence on the grassy knol ( hence the puffs of smoke that witnesses alluded to ) . The Oswald shot from the BD is the one that hit both Kennedy and Connally .. a completely different bullet designed to do exactly what it did ( to pass through a body ).

Another tell tale sign is the fact that three palings from the grassy knol fence were removed by the secret service directly following the assassination ! I wish the Ripper case was this straight forward

moonbegger .

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon , Because after the first shot .. Hicky was standing up in the support car with the AR15 pointing directly towards the lead car .. witnesses commented that they thought the support car was shooting back at the would be assassins , strangely enough these witnesses never made it into the Warren report ???

moonbegger

Hi moonbegger

Ok, so the trajectory is downwards, Hickey is standing, Kennedy is sitting, the gun is high enough to shoot over the top of the windscreen of Hickey's car, so this bullet goes through Kennedy's head and into Connally's back?
So is Connally hit by two bullets?

[moonbegger]

So how is it that this shot from the AR15 did not go through the windshield before striking Kennedy?

Hi Jon , Because after the first shot .. Hicky was standing up in the support car with the AR15 pointing directly towards the lead car .. witnesses commented that they thought the support car was shooting back at the would be assassins , strangely enough these witnesses never made it into the Warren report ???

moonbegger

[Ally]

And none of the so-called conspiracy theories explains why precisely Oswald killed the officer Tippet.

It was his rifle. It was in his place of work. He leaves after the assassination. Kills a police officer and hides. Attempts to kill another police officer when he is caught.

But nah, it wasn't him, it was a frame up.

And there is no way Ruby killing him could have been anything other than a spur of the moment whim. The timing doesn't add up and Ruby's actions ahead of the killing don't indicate he was on any particular time table or in any hurry to be somewhere. It was pure chance he happened to be where he was, when he was and did the deed that spawned a thousand conspiracy theories.

[Wickerman]

Dallas police chief in 1963, Jesse Curry admitted that no one could place LHO in that window with a gun..so please do not ask what he was doing up there with his rifle when you have NO prove of it.

So what is your opinion of these four witnesses, Brennan, Fischer, Edwards & Euins, who all saw someone shooting from that window?
Brennan identified Oswald.
Fischer & Edwards described a man consistent with Oswald.
Euins only saw the figure of a man.

[Wickerman]

When Oswald was in custody he received a visit from his wife & mother together. They spoke via a hand-set phone through a window.
Marina said the police had asked her about the rifle. Oswald responded by saying, "don't worry, I have friends who are going to help me with that."

I wonder what he meant by that.

[robert newell]

The bag!!!

[robert newell]

Dallas police chief in 1963, Jesse Curry admitted that no one could place LHO in that window with a gun..so please do not ask what he was doing up there with his rifle when you have NO prove of it. Does any one here really know the evidence or lack of same? Here is an easy question. Who found the supposed paper bag on 6'th floor. Who photographed it in it's location. Who saw LHO with the bag? What did they say concerning the bag in evidence. What did the person who saw Oswald enter the TSBD from the inside say he was carrying? What did the examination of the paper and tape show as to when that bag could of been made? (it could actualy be narrowed down to hours.) No oil stains at all on the paper..from a 'well oiled' weapon-disassembeled. Have you seen this bag? Do not forget, this was a makeshift bag, made with paper and tape, carring a real, metal,bulky, bouncing around parts,well oiled gun. No folds or creases, or tears. Once again look at the bag in evidence.
The gun..why was the gun found a different length than the one in the order.Do you know about the money order questions? Do you know how many mc's were produced with the same serial number? Why were postal slips, which by law were to be saved, thrown away in this instance. There is really no proof that a rifle addressed to A. Hidell was picked up by Oswald or that Hidell was named as someone who could get mail at Oswalds po box. How long did it takes Kliens to get and deposit the m.o. When were the gun and hand gun mailed..from whom and how close together? The chain of evidence of the hand gun is also a shambles.
So much more..... I've mentioned on this site before that if those of you who really put your minds and hard effort, with an open mind, to work on the JFK case, that you do on JTR, you will be amazed. Please do not take things presented as FACT as such, just because of repetition or because of where it comes from. The lone gunman, is just as much a theory as anything out there. One with no more evidence as some others. Please don't use stories like Greer shooting JFK, or an ss agents gun going off just to put down people who seriously research this murder.
In the end it is not the theories or attempts to prove who were the killers that prove that this was a plot. It is the REAL evidence and lack of that leads one to seriously question the mainstrean story. Study the real evidence in the depth you study JTR . It's a whole 'nother story when you climb into the trenches and see the real documented evidence. The prove of a conspiracy is right there in the WC records the DPD files and the FBI files. There is no need to make up stories. Just read and study the bare evidence. As a member of the HSCA once said.."If I was a trial lawyer I would rather defend Lee Harvy Oswald, than prosecute him". ...Thanks for letting me rant!!....Robert