Help! Travel to US

[Ally]

It's about 8 hours from N'awlins to Nashville assuming you don't hit rush hour traffic (I am assuming you are taking the Birmingham route) or any accidents along the route. Birmingham is also a pretty cool place if you want to stop for lunch. A little on the economic depressed side but has lots of Civil Rights era stuff and Sloss furnaces (haunted!) a historic wreck that pays homage to the era of industrial revolution. That would probably be too much of a time-wasting detour though. Pretty cool place just to wander around though. If you are interested in the real old meat and veg whistle stop cafe and the inspiration for the place in the movie Fried Green Tomatoes, you'll be passing by Irondale which has the original cafe and you can order up a mess o' fried green tomaters.. Mmmmm and chicken n'dumplings and fresh biscuits and cornbread.

[Fleetwood Mac]

We clung to slavery long after most of the rest of the world decided it was barbaric, sort of like the way we cling to the Death Penalty now.

In England, polls show that the English want the death penalty reinstated. Consistently, we are in favour of this - just - say 55/45.

The death penalty is a reasonable argument for managing your society.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Fascinating post, Colin. What happened to Todd Carter is a classic example of how close to home this war was to Southerners.

Is there a lasting legacy, Hunter? In terms of split between the North and South?

[Fleetwood Mac]

The Ranger station(visitor's center) at Shiloh is on the park, right next to the National Cemetery. The tour can be taken by motorcar and the tour trail is conveniently marked.

Hunter, I'm struggling to understand how this can be so difficult. I'd imagine you ask the right questions and you listen to the answers and follow the instructions.

FM, although this might rule out Memphis, the Natchez Trace Parkway is a beautiful scenic route from Natchez Mississippi to just south of Nashville. There are lots of historic sites along the way.

We're more than happy to go out of our way if something is worth seeing. History is my passion, so I'm always open to ideas. What are the historic sites?

I'm at Shiloh a lot and will be glad to help you if you are interested in visiting there. It is the only Civil War battlefield National park that is truly like it was at the time of the battle; no urban sprawl encroachment. If you get within 50 miles of it, there are signs.

We've decided we're definitely going to Shiloh. Thanks for the offer, Hunter. I'll be in touch with dates etc when we've nailed down plans.

You may consider spending a night in Corinth, Mississippi. Its only a few miles from the park and has an excellent bed and breakfast there. The house was where the Confederate generals stayed and planned their order of battle for Shiloh. Corinth was also the site of a battle and Brice's Crossroads is not too far away.

How long will it take to take in the park? It may mean we need somewhere to stay for the night.

[RivkahChaya]

This is going to be tricky.

What are my options here to get what I want?

Swerve tea and order coffee? Surely coffee is coffee?

Just be sure to order "hot tea," if that is in fact what you want. If you want iced tea, prepare for it to be very sweet unless you order it otherwise. In an ordinary diner, coffee is coffee, but in a specialty shop, like Starbucks, or a bagel or doughnut shop, there is often a dazzling array, where you have to speak Italian to understand the pricing, and a "frap" is more like a thin milk shake, while iced coffee is coffee over ice.

Also, beware of a new practice. It used to be that "half & half" referred to a mix of half cream and half whole milk. Now, virtually no one serves actual cream for coffee, and "cream" means a cream/whole milk mix, while ordering "half & half" gets you coffee that is half regular, half decaf.

The deposit for the car is standard. In fact, 400 dollars is on the reasonable side.

Yes, but it must be on a credit card, not debit, checks, or cash. I remember when my parents used to be able to write a check and have it held.

In terms of the driving licence, everywhere I've been you simply apply to drive abroad. The document turns up a few weeks later and that's that. I didn't anticipate that I may need to have held one for the full year to drive in the US, so I'll be looking into this over the next couple of days. I have a licence to drive abroad from last summer going to Croatia/Italy etc. Whether or not it has ran its course, and whether it will be applicable for US travel I don't know - need to dig it out.

Thanks again.

I didn't realize you had an international driver's license. That's probably acceptable at most rental places, especially where there is an international airport. Speaking of your other half, rental places do not charge you a second driver fee if the second driver is your spouse. However, if you do not have the same last name, you may want to bring a copy of your marriage certificate, or whatever, assuming you happen to have one. It would also be prudent in case of the wildly unlikely happenstance that one of you should be hurt, and the other one needs to make medical decisions. Aside from that, US hospitals can be very odd about visiting. If you are immediate family, you can visit any time, but if you are not, you are restricted to a narrow and inconvenient two hour time window.

It's just one of those "better safe than sorry" things. I dunno-- I guess when DH was in the Army, we were asked for our marriage certificate left and right, so we had multiple copies everywhere.

My other half is interested in the Kennedy business. Personally don't know much about it. She could be interested in this.

If you don't know about the Axeman, it's very interesting.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello Mac. Thanks.

Northumberland, perhaps?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Durham, which is the next one down from Northumberland.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Since he wants to go to Memphis, he should go from New Orleans to Memphis, not New Orleans to Nashville. NO to Memphis is about 7 hours. Of course, that's optimal driving conditions, and no construction delays. You can check on all that, though.

You will probably have the option of renting a GPS device with the car. You can buy one for less than $100 at Walmart. If the cost per day of renting one is more than $100, buy one, then sell it on eBay after your trip. Or bring one with you, if you already have one.

It's true that there isn't much touristy in Mississippi. I haven't driven through it, but I know people who have, and try to drive around it if they can. I've had to cross Ohio on I-70 I don't know how many times, and it's mind-numbing.

I have driven through Arkansas more than once, and that is pretty scenic, with lots of good stops. My husband and I went on a two-week road-trip with our three dogs, going all the way to the Grand Canyon. We stopped in Hot Springs, Arkansas, and loved it. So did the dogs. Our dogs (we still have one of the original three, and we were married in 2001) have done all kinds of touristy things. Anyway, New Orleans to Hot Springs is about 8 hours, but then it's just three more to Memphis.

You'll get better rates on hotels if you book in advance.

I don't know whether "road trips" is a concept in the UK, but it's a very American sort of vacation.

What are the hotels like in the US? Reasonably priced? We'll certainly be organising it before we go so that we're not messing around trying to organise when we're there - it takes some of the fun out of it as you're spending time trying thinking about where to stay and how to get there.

[Fleetwood Mac]

of course to get from Louisiana (go to Antoine's) to Tennessee you have to drive through Mississippi, and I can't think of a single thing in that whole state to go see.

But because I have noticed British people have problems judging American distance, it is a 10 to 14 drive from New Orleans to Nashville. The distance being somewhat comparable to driving from London to Lucerne Switzerland.

When we first thought about it, we had in mind that the US is a vast country and thought the driving between states may be too much.

We were pleasantly surprised to see that the distances between the places we want to go aren't out of bounds.

When we looked at New Orleans to Nashville it was 7 to 8 hours, so the plan is to get up early, have some breakfast and arrive in Nashville around tea time. Just get the bags in the hotel, get showered/changed and go out.

Is it really 10 to 14 hours?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Geez, I can't believe I forgot to mention this: there's a couple of "true crime" tours in New Orleans. You can go on an Axeman tour, or visit the sites that inspired the misguided prosecution of Clay Shaw for conspiring to kill Kennedy. I don't know anything about the latter tour, and what position the guides take, although it is possible to believe there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy, and still believe DA Garrison went off the deep end.

My other half is interested in the Kennedy business. Personally don't know much about it. She could be interested in this.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Oh, by the way, Mac, you probably know about the whole chips/crisps/fries thing, but you should also know that Americans have lately taken "fries" to a whole new level. We have steak fries, which do not have steak in them, they're just thick-cut, home fries, which have the skin left on, and are usually seasoned, shoestring fries, which are very thin, and "tater tots," which are hashed potatos, formed into little peg shapes, and deep fried. They are very, very good. You'll also encounter curly fries, and different types of spiced fries.

Speaking of steak fries not having steak, "chicken-fried steak" does not have chicken. It started in Texas, but I understand you'll probably see it in Louisiana and Tennessee as well-- meats that are not chicken, fried as though they are chicken. I've never had it, but I've seen it on menus.

This is going to be tricky.

What are my options here to get what I want?

Swerve tea and order coffee? Surely coffee is coffee?

Hire an interpreter for ordering of light freshments and snacks? Are they reasonably priced?

You actually might want to contact your rental agency (Budget, Hertz, etc.) about using a UK license. I think some of them have requirements, like having held your foreign license for a full year, or providing your driving record, so they know that your license isn't suspended in your home country. They can check on US licenses in a matter of minutes on the computer, but they don't have access to international records. You want to make sure that you have space on your credit card for whatever the deposit will be-- it's usually around $400.

Thanks for this piece of advice. It really is appreciated.

The deposit for the car is standard. In fact, 400 dollars is on the reasonable side.

In terms of the driving licence, everywhere I've been you simply apply to drive abroad. The document turns up a few weeks later and that's that. I didn't anticipate that I may need to have held one for the full year to drive in the US, so I'll be looking into this over the next couple of days. I have a licence to drive abroad from last summer going to Croatia/Italy etc. Whether or not it has ran its course, and whether it will be applicable for US travel I don't know - need to dig it out.

Thanks again.

[RivkahChaya]

No Indiana was very much part of the North. So was Kentucky, so it wasn't even a border state. There are still people who have bumper stickers with a Confederate flag, and the phrase "My heritage, your ignorance," which I find more than perplexing.

When DH was in Iraq, in the freaking US freaking Army, one of the guys he worked with had a sticker or something with a Confederate flag, and some slogan about "heritage." DH said to him "Aren't you from Wisconsin?" the guy said, "Well, it's the heritage of anyone who's a rebel or nonconformist." DH just stared at him, and said "You're in the Army."

And the guy says "Well, yeah, but just to pay for college."

If you want to know the truth, I suspect what a Confederate flag display really means is "I'm racist, but I know better than to come out and say it, so I'm hiding behind the idea of 'heritage,' because it's not cool to challenge other peoples' 'heritage.'"

[Errata]

Actually, if the photographic evidence is to be believed, people who were not soldiers used to take picnic baskets and watch the battles.

As far as marching through a town and marauding, you're more likely to think that a particular general is an ass****, than that "war is hell."

All over Southern Indiana, you see a lot of Confederate flags, especially on the fronts of semis. Makes me sick. I can't imagine what it's like for black people to see those-- probably about as much fun as when I see people displaying swastikas. Fortunately, most of the general, gentile public thinks the display of swastikas is stupid. I wish there were the same general feeling about the Confederate flag.

Only at Bull Run. After the retreat of the Union Army trapped wealthy civilians between live ammo and the fleeing army, that practice stopped pretty quickly.

And whether or not you think a general or an entire Army are a bunch of ass holes, what matters is that you become unwilling to risk a repeat.

Is Indiana the South? I thought it was the Midwest. Which makes the Confederate Flag (which it actually isn't) even more perplexing.

[RivkahChaya]

Actually, if the photographic evidence is to be believed, people who were not soldiers used to take picnic baskets and watch the battles.

As far as marching through a town and marauding, you're more likely to think that a particular general is an ass****, than that "war is hell."

All over Southern Indiana, you see a lot of Confederate flags, especially on the fronts of semis. Makes me sick. I can't imagine what it's like for black people to see those-- probably about as much fun as when I see people displaying swastikas. Fortunately, most of the general, gentile public thinks the display of swastikas is stupid. I wish there were the same general feeling about the Confederate flag.

[Errata]

I might be cryin' about it, if the South hadn't been fighting for the right to own other people. I just can't feel sorry for any of the bad things that happened to them. And I don't want to hear about states' rights. I read the declarations of secession the Southern states issued. Every single one mentions slavery specifically. It's an embarrassment, especially to a country that thought of itself as more enlightened than others. We clung to slavery long after most of the rest of the world decided it was barbaric, sort of like the way we cling to the Death Penalty now.

It's not about defending the South. Sure they had some legitimate complaints, but while the slavery issue does not make them moot, it certainly makes them much harder to hear. 90% of the Confederacy did not own slaves. But defending the right to own them was intolerable.

But if you are going to have a Civil War, you need to be in it to understand it. It's one thing to be for a war when no one you know is dying, and the fighting never comes near you. When everyone you know is dying, and the fighting is in your front yard, everything changes. The North needed to be actually in the war in order to not only understand what war looks like, but to be able to formulate an opinion a to what is worth war, and what is not worth war. The North needed to be in the War in order to know what victory was going to look like. Many people in 1861 did not believe in accepting surrender under any circumstances. That's bad. It's short sighted and it's destructive. Many people thought that if the South just gave up then we could go back to the way things were. That's also bad. That's completely unrealistic.

But they didn't know that neither solution would work until they experienced what the South experienced. They needed to feel the anger and the helplessness of war in their town. They needed to lose something important to them to understand what that does to a person. To a soldier. They needed to know why things couldn't ever go back to the way they were, and they needed to know why they HAD to accept surrender from the South if it ever came. They needed to be more afraid of loss than they were of letting the South survive in some fashion. And they needed to understand loss to understand why the South couldn't go back, not after everything they lost. Everyone has grand ideals in the beginning of a war. They are not useful. Lee's march North crushed these grand ideals. Whether it made them more or less sympathetic to the south, it doesn't matter. That was the point where everyone decided that the war needed to end sooner rather than later. And thats important.

[curious]

The riverfront sounds ideal because really we just want to go to a few pubs, listen to some music, get a feel for the place and chat to the locals.

Hello, FM,
You likely already know about Beale Street in Memphis, Home of the Blues, but if not, it's exactly the sort of place you've described.

It's been years since I visited, but we really enjoyed our evening in that area.

It's also been years since I've visited New Orleans, and I know Katrina changed almost everything.
We stayed at a little place called The Frenchman Hotel just outside the French Quarter in the Marigny. It was a charming and strange little hotel, all painted hot pink with balconies running every-which-way and a delicious breakfast -- mostly rolls. It is on the same street with pubs and music joints not quite as touristy as those in the French Quarter.

I suggest Pat O'Brien's, in the Quarter -- my favorite place, just for the ambiance if nothing else.

My son lived in NO and he loved to go to "Coop's" ( I think the actual name might be Cooper's something) on Decatur -- a hole in the wall place the locals went, but tourists didn't know about.

City Park is wonderful to explore, with the Spanish moss dripping everywhere.

Now, Nashville:
A friend of mine has just returned from the Nashville area, because as a big Civil War buff, he was interested in all the activities in conjunction with marking the 150th anniversary of the Tullahoma Campaign, which encompassed areas around Murfreesboro down toward Chattanooga. That was just a couple of weekends ago that he went. I do understand that as small towns go Bell Buckle, between Nashville and Chattanooga, is a great one to explore. Supposedly, Bell Buckle was the layover stop for Al Capone as he traveled back and forth between Chicago and Florida. By October, though, you will have missed the town's famous RC-Moonpie festival.

But October is the perfect month to travel this region. You could not have chosen better.



curious