Just where do we go from here?

[Chris]

Reports of rioting in Oldham ,I think youd better give johnny wilkinson a call then.

Why I am not surprised that I can find absolutely no mention of any trouble in Oldham on Google News?

I'd guess these 'reports' - you don't say where you saw them - were an attempt to fan the flames. I'd advise you to check with a reputable news source rather than spreading rumours in future.

[Chris]

That is a quite ridicolous answer.I could respond by saying that you have spent the OTHER half of the thread asking stupid and patronizing questions.
Maybe if I smoked a few joints and and drank a gallon of Poteen I might be able see the world as clear as you do?

More personal abuse? Thanks - I expected no less. It's all more useful information about "where you're coming from".

But seriously, do you not see any irony in the fact that you have whined endlessly about your right to criticise Islam being stifled (which, it seems, actually means only that you think people are trying to stifle your opinions - which on further enquiry apparently means only that people are disagreeing with you) on the one hand - and on the other, the fact that you want this man to be locked up, not for anything he has actually done or said, but because you infer there may be thoughts in his head that you don't like?

It really is priceless entertainment. Please carry on not being stifled!

[Archaic]

My Chaldean pun fell flat, I'm afraid.

I got it, David.

But some others might have thought "Ur" was just modern text-speak.

(Er...spell?)

Best regards,
Archaic

[Jonathan H]

I agree that invasion does not work, or heavy bombing, or drones, because we kill indiscriminately and the regime is consequently strengthened by morale rising to to unite against the foreign invader.

But we did invade Iraq and if we had to invade somebody I just wish it had been Iran to topple a regime which, apart from other despicable acts against its own people and others, held embassy staff for 444 days, who were often tortured.

My main point has been lost probably from making the above rhetorical gesture.

I was arguing that 99.9% of Muslims are law-abiding citizens who abhor terrorism.

The problem is not domestic terrorism.

The problem is how far can a secular society accomodate an intolerant ideology, ala Weimar Germany?

I'm for gay marriage but in a few years it will become increasingly difficult as politicians represent a growing number of constituents who want it blocked and that that sexual orientation re-criminalized.

That's not their fault, that's the fault of Big Business for allowing to settle into a democratic and pluralist and secular society too many people -- their skills exploited -- who have a fundamentalist ideology, as is their democratic right.

[Errata]

If Islam IS the enemy ,then saying" Islam is the enemy" is a truthful thing to say.It will be those who disagree that Islam is the enemy who will say that it is the view of a Bigot. Can I not say the person who called me a Bigot, is a Bigot by his/hers own definition of the word?
It doesnt bother me personally being called a Bigot,Ive been called much worse.And of course the words Bigot and racist have been thrown about so much that they dont really mean much any more .
As you rightly say,there will always be enemies, somebody will always hate,I accept that. But my issue is ,we have enemies, sure we kill some of them...but then we invite them into our backyards,pamper them,coddle them give them every opportunity,discriminate in their favour,and still they kill us.They take over neighbourhoods,erect their bloody mosques,have our police ***** footing around their warrens for fear of upsetting them,and as a final indignity force fed the govt message that the public just love multi culturalism.How would the government know-they never asked us!
I will say though,that Ive heard several interviews the last few days with Muslim leaders who condemn the atrocities.One even admitted that the Mosques,and Mullahs are to blame and Islam itself even.....so perhaps he is a Bigot too.

NO probs with the "train wreck" ......it happens all the time
One question though, What were you doing at KKK hq?Its not trick question ,Im just curious and intrigued.

The key to not being bigoted is to never make any judgement about a group of people absolute. So really, it's just about qualifying what you say. If a person doesn't want to qualify what they say that's fine, but they are going to sound like a bigot, which is usually a big clue that a person is in fact a bigot. I have a friend who can say the most appalling things and not sound prejudiced because he presents his thoughts "while being humble in the face of an ever changing universe" (he's pretty hilarious too.) Which means that while he thinks something is an absolute truth, he bows to the whims of fate and just accepts that there are exceptions out there he doesn't know about. So he qualifies what he says. He's also Buddhist, so he could probably say something completely racist and people would assume they heard it wrong, because, you know, Buddhist.

The reason I say Islam is not the enemy is because Islam is a book and a story. It's no more an enemy of anybody you've ever met than Sith Lords are the enemy of anyone you've ever met, Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Or the Swamp Thing. Ideas don't hurt people. People hurt people. Do I wish certain statements never made it into any number of Holy Scriptures? Yeah. But the Bible says we're supposed to burn people who wear poly/cotton blends so no matter how stringent the rule in the book, people are capable of brushing that off if they want to. That they don't want to is a problem. And it's a problem rooted in a lot of non religious things. But Islam never hurt anybody. It's like the bumper sticker says "Lord, deliver me from your followers".

And I like Multiculturalism. Especially the food. I swear to god, if I have to choose between not living in fear of terrorism, or living in fear of it and getting decent falafel in town, I really might pick the falafel.

As for my association with the Klan, I worked for a cult investigator who was researching the psychological effects of growing up in a cult. People who actually did don't want to talk to people. But the Klan as it happens are media whores, and if you tell them you're a blogger they will tell you everything, and growing up in a Klan family is a pretty good parallel. Since the birthplace of the Klan is 20 minutes away, and I was the only person in the office who could possibly pass as someone who even knew what a blog was, it was my gig. And it's funny, but if you tell them you want to write about how the Klan is like a cult, they are so eager to prove you wrong that they give you the proof you were looking for on a plate. So mostly it was not Hitler evil. It was Wile. E. Coyote evil.

[Mayerling]

All Muslims are nice, and all Christians worship Torquemada.

Now, I'm so cooooool.

Maybe Mel Brooks is singing "The Inquisition".

[Smoking Joe]

Muslims are almost right.
There is one God.
But his name is Jonny Wilkinson.

Reports of rioting in Oldham ,I think youd better give johnny wilkinson a call then.

[DVV]

Muslims are almost right.
There is one God.
But his name is Jonny Wilkinson.

[Smoking Joe]

Perhaps you shouldn't be quite so keen on people being locked up for inciting racial hatred because of inferences drawn from their silence.

After all, you've spent half the thread telling us how unfair people are for drawing inferences from what you've posted yourself.

That is a quite ridicolous answer.I could respond by saying that you have spent the OTHER half of the thread asking stupid and patronizing questions.
Maybe if I smoked a few joints and and drank a gallon of Poteen I might be able see the world as clear as you do?

[DVV]

All Muslims are nice, and all Christians worship Torquemada.

Now, I'm so cooooool.

[Chris]

If he cant condem it ,then the inference is clear.

Perhaps you shouldn't be quite so keen on people being locked up for inciting racial hatred because of inferences drawn from their silence.

After all, you've spent half the thread telling us how unfair people are for drawing inferences from what you've posted yourself.

[Smoking Joe]

He hasn't been 'shipped out' because he was born in England. I presume he hasn't been charged because in this country not saying what someone else wants you to say is not a criminal offence.

If he cant condem it ,then the inference is clear. The man is a pig. And no,being a pig isnt a criminal offence either. Maybe it should be.
Dump him outside Woolwich Barracks for the weekend ,Im sure the Squaddies would get him to rephrase his words.

AS for being British well, the English channel comes under the jurisdiction of the UK.

[Chris]

Just reading here that the crazy muslim radical preacher Choduary or whatever his name is ,has said on BBC that while he was shocked by the incident,he wont condemn it. So why hasnt he allready been shipped out? or charged with inciting racial hate,because it amounts to the same.Pretty obvious why. There are times when I truly despair.

He hasn't been 'shipped out' because he was born in England. I presume he hasn't been charged because in this country not saying what someone else wants you to say is not a criminal offence.

[Smoking Joe]

Just reading here that the crazy muslim radical preacher Choduary or whatever his name is ,has said on BBC that while he was shocked by the incident,he wont condemn it. So why hasnt he allready been shipped out? or charged with inciting racial hate,because it amounts to the same.Pretty obvious why. There are times when I truly despair.

[DVV]

So, there are no Catholics in Africa?

Mouarfff !