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  • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
    I like Greece’s idea of fining people who won’t vaccinate. Refusing them medical treatment would be another option. A good way of trimming the herd.
    Some big firms here in the UK are saying that if an employee tests positive and has to isolate, they will get full pay unless they are unvaccinated by choice, in which case they will just get the government's statutory sick pay.

    That seems perfectly fair to me. Why should these selfish bastards who only think of themselves get the same benefits as all those doing the decent thing for everyone around them?

    I wonder what percentage of anti-vaxxers are also bible bashers. We should all be treating others as we would like to be treated, from the religious fundamentalist to the atheist, and everyone in between - no exceptions.

    Why is it relevant where and when this virus originated?

    Love,

    Caz
    X
    "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


    Comment


    • Originally posted by FISHY1118 View Post

      Here in N.S W. Australia there were 22 deaths last thurs, 14 were ''double vaccinated'' 8 were '''unvaccinated'', just so your up to date whats actually happening . Im sure you can work out the hospital admittance numbers from that and which ones leading that count . In the two years since covid hit our shores weve had 5150 acholol related deaths in this country , you can double that for drug related deaths , do we not treat them in hospitals also ? and start fining people who turn up when they have done something stupid by their own choice that requires hospital treatment.? Were already on our 3rd and some 4th booster shots here and yet the infection rates still climb. These are the facts herlocks, with respect your above comment is a little uniformed and in poor taste in my opinion . .
      For the figures to mean anything, we would need to know what proportion of the adult population in your area had been jabbed or not jabbed, because it's unlikely to be a straight 50/50. If the vast majority have now been fully vaccinated, you are not comparing like with like, to compare 14 deaths among the vast majority with 8 from a much smaller number.

      One death is one too many, if it could have been prevented by everyone getting the jab when they became eligible. If there is evidence that the unvaccinated are more likely to be spreading this virus to vulnerable individuals who may or may not yet be fully jabbed, then we will know who to blame.

      It would be one thing if the unvaccinated by choice took all sensible alternative precautions, such as wearing a mask and keeping their distance from others, but too often the same people are against any and all restrictions to their own freedoms and lifestyles.

      Love,

      Caz
      X
      Last edited by caz; 01-17-2022, 03:40 PM.
      "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


      Comment


      • Originally posted by celee View Post

        I think that most people who do not wish to be vaccinated are not crazy conspiracy theorists they just feel the vaccine does not work. So, why get a shot that does not prevent the spread of the virus. Does not prevent illness even death from the virus and a booster is required every three months. Remember the virus has a 99% survival rate for most people. If the vaccine prevented the spread of the virus more people would get the jab. It should be mentioned that the vaccine does have side effects and has proven deadly for some. So, like I posted before I do not have the answers but treating honest people with legitimate concerns like garbage is not the answer.
        They just 'feel' that the vaccine does not work??

        And that is a good enough reason not to get it anyway, in case they are completely wrong about this, and could even save the life of another human being?

        Christ on a bike, the world is screwed.
        "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


        Comment


        • Originally posted by caz View Post

          Some big firms here in the UK are saying that if an employee tests positive and has to isolate, they will get full pay unless they are unvaccinated by choice, in which case they will just get the government's statutory sick pay.

          That seems perfectly fair to me. Why should these selfish bastards who only think of themselves get the same benefits as all those doing the decent thing for everyone around them?

          I wonder what percentage of anti-vaxxers are also bible bashers. We should all be treating others as we would like to be treated, from the religious fundamentalist to the atheist, and everyone in between - no exceptions.

          Why is it relevant where and when this virus originated?

          Love,

          Caz
          X
          Certainly in America it appears to me to be from the Republican right that the anti-vaccination noise is coming from. The same people who tried to get Intelligent Design taught in schools and who perhaps still haven’t come to terms with the Confederacy losing the Civil War. As you say, everyone should be treated equally as everyone has the same responsibility to the population as a whole. Over here I’m unsure whether the anti-van movement is distinctly left or right. You can get conspiracy theorists on both sides of the spectrum Id suggest.

          I don’t think that it’s relevant where it came from either but there are a few conspiracist loons that would disagree with you though Caz.
          Regards

          Herlock Sholmes

          Comment


          • Originally posted by caz View Post

            They just 'feel' that the vaccine does not work??

            And that is a good enough reason not to get it anyway, in case they are completely wrong about this, and could even save the life of another human being?

            Christ on a bike, the world is screwed.


            Ive said it before Caz but if they colonise another planet in the next 20 years I’m off.
            Regards

            Herlock Sholmes

            Comment


            • Originally posted by celee View Post
              The problem is the political climate has become an us vs them mentality. So, facts are ignored because people do not want to admit they were wrong. The fact is most people who die from covid, vaccinated or not, have an underlying condition. This is a well-known fact. Healthy people under the age of 65 have very little chance of dying from the disease. The idea that the unvaccinated are spreading the disease exclusively is false. The CDC tells us the vaccine does not prevent the spread of the virus so a vaccinated person can spread the virus to somebody the same as an unvaccinated person. For example, teachers and health care workers can spread the virus if they are vaccinated or not. What the experts claim the vaccine does is prevent a person from serious illness if they get the virus however, that is turning out to be false too. I wonder what the haters feel about those who have died from taking the vaccine? Are they heroes for taking one for the team? 30,000 health care workers in New York were fired because they refused the vaccine. That cripples our health care system more than anything.
              So my brother doesn't count because he just turned 65 last September? He was fit and healthy and double jabbed, always wore a mask and practised social distancing. Yet he was admitted to Whipps Cross Hospital in November with covid pneumonia and was on oxygen twice, and heavy duty antibiotics, before he pulled round and began a long and ongoing recovery process. At one point we thought we were going to lose him. He now faces respiratory problems for the rest of his days, and he was told in the hospital that if only he had been eligible for his booster a bit sooner, he would almost certainly have been spared this vile disease and all its consequences. The experience cost him nothing financially, thanks to our marvellous NHS, but whether it will cost him a long and healthy old age might be another matter.

              It's nothing short of disgusting to suggest there is very little difference in terms of public health between being fully vaccinated or not at all.
              "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


              Comment


              • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                Certainly in America it appears to me to be from the Republican right that the anti-vaccination noise is coming from. The same people who tried to get Intelligent Design taught in schools and who perhaps still haven’t come to terms with the Confederacy losing the Civil War. As you say, everyone should be treated equally as everyone has the same responsibility to the population as a whole. Over here I’m unsure whether the anti-van movement is distinctly left or right. You can get conspiracy theorists on both sides of the spectrum Id suggest.

                I don’t think that it’s relevant where it came from either but there are a few conspiracist loons that would disagree with you though Caz.
                I wonder what they would think about the Rutland ichthyosaur fossil found a year ago: 'the largest UK example of a predator that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs has been uncovered. The 33ft (10m) long ichthyosaur fossil, which is about 180 million years old, was found at Rutland Water Nature Reserve.'

                "We have faith! It must be a shabby hoax!!"

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                Comment


                • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                  There are a few Doctors around who dismiss evolution but it doesn’t mean that we have to give them a seconds credence or take them seriously. It’s called a fringe. It’s usually occupied by loonies.
                  I expect if Harold Shipman were still with us, he'd be telling all his patients over 65 not to bother getting vaccinated - so he could play God a little longer.

                  I don't see too much difference in the psychopathology between that a**hole and the other a**hole, Andrew Wakefied - apart from the age of their victims.

                  Love,

                  Caz
                  X
                  "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by caz View Post

                    I expect if Harold Shipman were still with us, he'd be telling all his patients over 65 not to bother getting vaccinated - so he could play God a little longer.

                    I don't see too much difference in the psychopathology between that a**hole and the other a**hole, Andrew Wakefied - apart from the age of their victims.

                    Love,

                    Caz
                    X
                    How can Wakefield become a kind of cult figure over there? A crook and a proven liar and yet some lap up every piece of crap that he says.
                    Regards

                    Herlock Sholmes

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by caz View Post
                      Why is it relevant where and when this virus originated?
                      So we can be Nationalistic dillholes and scream about the evil foreigners, of course. Duh.


                      He now faces respiratory problems for the rest of his days, and he was told in the hospital that if only he had been eligible for his booster a bit sooner, he would almost certainly have been spared this vile disease and all its consequences.
                      So, I got Covid end of Feb/beginning of March 2020. Before vaccinations, before there were tests, before masks were a wide-spread thing, and while our president was on air barking about how masks were useless, blah blah. When I found out he knew full forking well that it was primarily transmitted via air as early as Feb 2020 and was completely downplaying the need or effectiveness of masks, I was straight up enraged. I PERSONALLY blame my getting ill on him, because he had a responsibility to the citizens of this country to do the best he could to protect us and he completely shat the bed. I too have lingering consequences, trashed lungs and didn't recover for well over a year. There were so many times this disease could have been mitigated to give us time to come up with viable conclusions and morons eff it up at every opportunity. You can't cure Covid, because you can't cure stupid.

                      Let all Oz be agreed;
                      I'm Wicked through and through.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by caz View Post

                        So my brother doesn't count because he just turned 65 last September? He was fit and healthy and double jabbed, always wore a mask and practised social distancing. Yet he was admitted to Whipps Cross Hospital in November with covid pneumonia and was on oxygen twice, and heavy duty antibiotics, before he pulled round and began a long and ongoing recovery process. At one point we thought we were going to lose him. He now faces respiratory problems for the rest of his days, and he was told in the hospital that if only he had been eligible for his booster a bit sooner, he would almost certainly have been spared this vile disease and all its consequences. The experience cost him nothing financially, thanks to our marvellous NHS, but whether it will cost him a long and healthy old age might be another matter.

                        It's nothing short of disgusting to suggest there is very little difference in terms of public health between being fully vaccinated or not at all.
                        You are making an allegation that is not true. I never said people over the age of 65 do not count. How can you possibly draw that conclusion from my post? This is a "well-known fact. Healthy people under the age of 65 have very little chance of dying from the disease." How do you interpret that to mean I think people over the age of 65 do not count? Your EXPERTS have said people under the age of 65 have little chance of dying from the virus. I value everyone's life it appears a lot more than some people on this thread do.

                        "It's nothing short of disgusting to suggest there is very little difference in terms of public health between being fully vaccinated or not at all.?. The CDC and the WHO, "THE EXPERTS" have told us the vaccine does not prevent a vaccinated person from spreading the virus or prevent a vaccinated person from getting the virus. All the vaccines do is supposably prevent serious illness from the virus for three months until booster. I am sorry your brothers' vaccine effectiveness wore out before he was eligible for a booster. My point is there is no distinction between a vaccinated person and an unvaccinated when it comes to getting and spreading the virus. The facts period according to the CDC and WHO. THE EXPERTS.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          I don’t think that it’s relevant where it came from either but there are a few conspiracist loons that would disagree with you though Caz.
                          Everyone wants to make everything about bigotry, First, the Confederacy was a coalition of Democrat-run states and the Republicans never had a problem with winning the war. I bet they still are a little bit upset about the assignation of Lincoln.

                          The reason why it is important to discover the origin of the virus is that we need to find out if the virus was a result of Gain of Function Research. Herlock you probably never heard of GOFR so you WILL think it is a conspiracy theory but the United States outlawed the practice in the U.S. That is why it is done overseas. Republican Senators want to know if the United States funded Gain of Function Reasearch in China and if the Covid-19 virus is a result of such research. It is not a conspiracy to hate on Chinese people and if a person believes that Republicans are plotting against the Chinese that might make them a conspiracy theorist.

                          In case you do not know GOFR is taking an existing virus and increasing its potency by combining it with other viruses. I am not sure why the research is done. I think it is to be prepared with potential vaccines but I really do not know. I do know the process was outlawed in the U.S. Dr. Fauci has been quoted claiming that a virus leak from a lab because of GOFR is worth the risk.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by celee View Post
                            I was stupid enough to get vaccinated by Johnson and Johnson and now JJ is NOT recommended by the EXPERTS who were so high on JJ beforehand. The EXPERTS now claim the JJ vaccine has potentially serious side effects, ****.
                            No such info in the latest FDA bulletin about the JJ vaccine: https://www.fda.gov/emergency-prepar...vid-19-vaccine.

                            What's your source for your statement?

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            The expert who founded mRNA therapy said children should never get the vaccine.
                            Is this the Robert Malone Story? it has been debunked by many more doctors. Mr. Malone is entitled to his opinion, it just happens that he is fairly isolated amongst the scientists. A proper fact-check on this issue can be found here: https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...roteins-covid/.

                            You seem to prefer the medical outlier, rather than the medical consensus which is that the vaccines are considered safe enough for FDA approval for children over the age of 5.

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            Fact the vaccine does not prevent a person from getting the virus.
                            Fact the vaccine does not prevent a person from spreading the virus
                            This is the old "Seat Belts do not prevent all car-crash fatalities" argument. As mentioned in my previous post, the vaccine GREATLY REDUCES the chance of either and there is tons of data to back this up right here: https://www.healthdata.org/covid/cov...ficacy-summary.

                            Btw, do you use a seat-belt when you go on the interstate? No? is it becasue it will not save your life in a 140mph (70 mph x2) head-on collision with an oncoming truck?

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            Fact the vaccine is only good for three months before a booster is necessary.
                            that's the nature of flu viruses. the change quickly. It's the reason why you need a new "common flu" shot every year. This is nothing particularly nefarious about Covid or its vaccines. the reason why you don't get a new flu shot offered every 3 months is that it has a much lower risk than covid.

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            Fact the vaccine has potentially serious side effects
                            Every vaccine has "potentially" serious side effects. Shingles, Hepatitis, yellow fever, etc. ALL list potential side-effecs. even aspiring lists the following:
                            Bleeding Within The Skull, Bleeding, Bronchospasm, Stomach Or Intestinal Ulcer, Blood Coming From Anus, Damage To The Liver And Inflammation, Bleeding Of The Stomach Or Intestines.
                            https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1...st-sideeffects

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            Fact the virus has a 99% survival rate the flu is more deadly to children.
                            sniff-test FAIL. what's your source on this?

                            Originally posted by celee View Post
                            Given the known facts why do you blame people for not wanting the jab? What are the obvious benefits of the jab?
                            You have an increased chance of surviving this pandemic and/or coming out of it with no long-term issues due to long-covid. Does this not sound appealing?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by celee View Post

                              Everyone wants to make everything about bigotry, First, the Confederacy was a coalition of Democrat-run states and the Republicans never had a problem with winning the war. I bet they still are a little bit upset about the assignation of Lincoln.
                              Funny how the post he's responding to says nothing about bigotry but somehow, that's uppermost in his mind anyway. Telling isn't it?

                              The reason why it is important to discover the origin of the virus is that we need to find out if the virus was a result of Gain of Function Research.
                              Really, why do we need to find that out?

                              but the United States outlawed the practice in the U.S.
                              Complete and utter horseshit. There was a moratorium on the practice in terms of funding while it's effects were studied (but really not even that) and that ban was lifted in 2018 (technically end of 2017 but functionally 2018). So irrelevant ENTIRELY in regards to Covid. It was never illegal to do in the United States, just jeopardized funding if you did, and that was lifted years before Covid.

                              I love it when the intellectually challenged read the headlines of something and run with it without bothering to actually, you know, investigate in the slightest.

                              Let all Oz be agreed;
                              I'm Wicked through and through.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Svensson View Post
                                The "very Little change" is still high enough for me to wanting to get myself and my family vaccinated.

                                No one ever said that the disease is spread by the vaccinated exclusively. You are using the oldest discussion trick in the world, exaggerate your opponents point and the attack the exaggeration. The facts are that you are MUCH MORE LIKELY to spread the disease when you are NOT vaccinated. First of all, you are less likely to get it in the first place and when you do, your symptoms are less severe and your breathing/coughing will create les of a viral load.

                                Ah, I see we are copying and pasting from Rand Paul's website now (sigh). Ok. So NOTHING in medicine is 100%. do you understand this VERY important part or notvarious vaccines that are out there are between 60 and 90% effective. So no, it does not PREVENT the transmision of Covid, it only GREATLY REDUCES covid transmission.? The

                                Celee, this is SO wrong, this it total and complete BULLSHIT. I'm scared to ask you for a source because I'm worried this actually exists. Bottomline: there is NO equivalence. Do you want me to provide you with Data?

                                Total Bullshit. According to CDC data from December 2021, vaccinated people are 9 times more likely to be hospitalised and 14 times more likely to die. there is an article on the BBC and they helpfully provide sources for their data (unlike you) which makes them a trustworthy source of information in general (unlike you): https://www.bbc.com/news/59757395. Will you read the article and either retract your statement or provide the source for YOUR statement so we can examine it?

                                WFT? How many people died from taking th evaccine in the US vs. the 850,000 people who died from Covid. You REALLY need to provide a source here.

                                30,000? WOW! Unbelievable. I mean, LITERALLY unbelievable. what's your source on that?
                                You are doing what you are accusing me of doing. You are changing the discussion. I never posted people over of 65 should not get vaccinated. I never posted that anyone should not get vaccinated. Let me be clear I support anyone's right to choose. Please get vaccinated until spike proteins come out of your butt. My whole point is people should not hate on those who do not get vaccinated.

                                Ah, I see we are copying and pasting from Rand Paul's website now (sigh). Ok. So NOTHING in medicine is 100%. do you understand this VERY important part or notvarious vaccines that are out there are between 60 and 90% effective. So no, it does not PREVENT the transmision of Covid, it only GREATLY REDUCES covid transmission.?

                                I have never been to Rand's website. However, he is a Dr. and someone who is a supporter of vaccinating the vulnerable. I think the Senator is against vaccine mandates. Why would the Senator mislead people? You are not one of those wacky conspiracy theorists. You do not believe that Rand is a James Bond villain who wants to depopulate the world, do you?

                                Total Bullshit. According to CDC data from December 2021, vaccinated people are 9 times more likely to be hospitalised and 14 times more likely to die. there is an article on the BBC and they helpfully provide sources for their data (unlike you) which makes them a trustworthy source of information in general (unlike you): https://www.bbc.com/news/59757395. Will you read the article and either retract your statement or provide the source for YOUR statement so we can examine it?

                                You are trying to deflect a new argument. I have posted that the CDC claims the vaccines make the virus symptoms less severe. So what are you going on about? I think it starting to show more and more vaccinated people turning up in hospitals. I consider the BBC a secondary news source. I will be fair and read it and even discuss if you agree to read source material from FOX and Newsmax?


                                WFT? How many people died from taking th evaccine in the US vs. the 850,000 people who died from Covid. You REALLY need to provide a source here.

                                This could be an interesting discussion. You obviously have never heard of the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database. It is a database that Doctors report instances where they feel a vaccine has harmed or killed a person. According to VAERS 22,000 people have died as a result of Covid vaccines and there have been a hundred thousand people who have had serious side effects. Detractors of VAERS, I am sure you will be one, claim there is no way to 100% verify the numbers. However, Harvard did a study that claims only 1% of adverse reactions to vaccines are reported to VAERS. Regardless the United States stop giving the swine flu vaccine after nine people had died. The question is how much risk or death is acceptable to mandate a vaccine?
                                Last edited by celee; 01-17-2022, 06:29 PM.

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